Monday, October 12, 2026

All right, the meeting will come to order.

I wanted to make an announcement. Yeah. From 6:00 to 7:00, the Planning Commission had an executive session today to discuss possible litigation. Thank you.

All right, we'll start by call- Pledge of Allegiance. Colonel... will lead us.

Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, before we review the minutes, is there any public comment not related to what's on the agenda tonight?

Hilda Vazquez on Country Manor West. Just I want... Yesterday there was a wastewater overflow at Country Manor West, with which is currently rezoned as R4. This incident raises serious concern about the area's infrastructure capacity. My question is, I know this is a comment section- Yeah... but I have a question. What specific priority study did this planning commission relay on to recommend that we zone Country Manor West from RS to R4? Because if Country Manor West is not ready for R4, look this, that happened yesterday. The water, that, that, the... Was the water around all Country Manor West in the front area.

Three mo- manhole take it up, dark water. This Country Manor West is not ready for R4. I don't know what study this planning commission used for recommending the RS to R4. Just I wanted talking about that.

All right, we'll move on to reviewing the minutes of August 24th.

Page four, last paragraph, third line down says, "Was unanimously agreed to now allow any further amendments," and it should say, "To not allow any further amendments." Yeah. Second sentence. On page four. Page- Page four...

Well, I have page three. Fifth paragraph down, "The big beautiful bill passed by Congress-" Yeah... "a couple years ago," that should "as," couple years. It should

"as" couple years ago.

Hey.

Yeah.

And I guess it should be quotations after the word bill.

You can check.

And above that, well, in that same paragraph is, "Seth Berry stated." Does it say somewhere who he is? I can't find. Yeah, yeah. Okay, sorry. Found it. Page five. Does everybody know what PSES means?

Well, you know, I do. Are you saying that you want that spelled out? Principal Solar. Principal Solar.

Energy Systems. Principal Solar- Energy System... Energy Systems. Yeah, I think it-

PSES... once, I think it should be spelled out.

Okay. Anything else? I move to approve the amendment- amended minutes of August 24th, 2006. Is there a-

I second.

We have a move and a second to approve the minutes. All in favor say aye. (Ayes.) Opposed, nay. Motion passed. We now move on to the September 14th minutes.

Mark, I guess a question came up earlier on this. Yes. The TPF 26-16 was referring to phase 1C. Was there a different TPF number for Campus Two? I, I, I think so.

That should be in one file. Let me see if I have the, that agenda.

On the first page, right above approval of the minutes for August 24th, that says Beth LaBorde, no address given. That should be Beth Legore, and she lives in The Meadows development. Teaberry Drive. Teaberry Drive.

So L-E-

G-O-R-E.

I think there was a TPF number. I don't happen to remember- We probably should add where it just says Campus Two- Yeah... the whole verbiage on there. And the same title, whatever it is. Discussion, possible recommendation for land development plan, beta or whatever it was. And that applies to-

Two... Campus Two on page five. Right.

So there were two different TPFs?

We believe so, yes.

Yes.

26-19. Definitely would be. Oh, I thought- 26, 26-19 should be phase two.

26-19.

Yeah. 26-19. We have a HRG letter. So you're... I put it for you, too, here on page five. Yeah. It should have the whole Campus Two. That whole- That whole general across.

So- Is that the final for Campus Two?

2.0 I'm just referencing HRG's letter- Okay... phase two final land development- Yeah... as highlighted 26-19. Okay.

Great. Are there any other comments? I think so. Okay. I will make a motion to approve the minutes for September 14th, 2026.

I'll second that.

So then, motion. Motion's made and seconded to approve the minutes. All in favor, please say aye. (Ayes.) Opposed, nay. Motion carries. All right. We'll now move on to discussion on TPF 26-21, which is the revised conceptual master plan for Grange phases two, three and four. Can I have something? Okay. Yeah, so can I have the smaller version?

Sure.

That helps. Oh, great. Yeah. Well, we can share it. I'll, we'll share the screen.

Let me see that. Thanks for your help. Mm-hmm.

You-

You and Jim?

Yeah.

Thanks. We just have one here. One here. Well, thank you. A little smaller.

Can you give your name for the record, please?

Yeah. So yes, my name's Laura Curran with Charter Homes and Neighborhoods, and I'm here with Dave Kegerize from Town Square Engineering. And we are here just to talk to, we submitted a sketch plan for Grange, that you have in front of you, that we just passed out also on the screen, and we'll walk through some of the exhibits. Phases one through four have been previously approved by the township. So this is really just revisions to phases two, three and four.

From a phase level, what, what we're doing and what's, you know, causing some of these changes is just looking at product mix for the future phases that aren't developed yet, just based on velocity and what, what the market's doing. So we've made some adjustments there, which have caused us to also shift around some phase lines, just so that when we release certain phases for sale, we have, you know, a better mix of products, and I'll walk through those. And then we did introduce some larger product in the area where we had narrower product, either from a single-family perspective or a town home perspective, so that caused some lot line revisions.

So overall, the changes are really just phase line changes and then some minor lot line adjustments based on just that context. We're looking at the product mix and trying to bring something better to the table moving forward based on market reaction.

So- Before you get- Sure... started with your presentation, what is the number of homes that have been built to date in the Grange, and the number of occupied homes?

I wouldn't have that off the top of my head. We can get back to you on that. I'm also just coming off maternity leave for three months- We, we had it in the last newsletter... so I'm a little far. I read that. Okay. I forget the last emails we gave you. I don't think we did. That was before I left. I calculated it for the last newsletter.

I don't have it in front of me.

So it's in that newsletter one?

Yes.

I can have that for the next meeting too, just-

Yeah, if you could provide that to me for next newsletter-

Yeah... that'd be great. Yeah. I did, I did have 'em published. Okay. So built to date, and then a copy. Do you have that here, that you want to give to him?

No.

Yeah. Okay. Got it. Great. Okay, so this exhibit is just showing phases one through four. So this is the phase one area down in here. There's phase two, phase three, and then phase four right here. The areas that are highlighted in these colors are the areas that are changing. So just a really high-level overview. The green, or the purple and blue areas, as well as the green, so this area here, this area, and these two areas down here are phase line adjustments. Again, just based on product mix of what was approved, and just wanting to adjust phase lines around to get either additional singles in a phase or vice versa town homes.

So this blue area, for example, was previously part of the approved phase four, and now we're shifting that phase line so it's part of phase three. This green area of town homes was originally part of phase three. We wanna incorporate it into phase four. The purple area is originally part of phase two. Now we wanna- like to have it be part of phase three. And then this blue area was originally part of phase two, and we would like to have it incorporated into phase three. So these areas, again, these four areas are just lo- phase line adjustments for product mix. And then the orange area up here as well as this yellow area, this is where we are introducing some larger products.

So this orange area up top in phase three are single family homes. And we are looking to just expand the product type here to a wider product. So with that, that has caused some lot line adjustments, and then we did lose a unit in this building right here. That is right here. Those are town homes. Sorry, did I say single family? There's both. Yeah, they're town homes. I apologize. They're to-

So what widths were they, and what are you going to on town home? Let me call it.

We lost the- Do you recall the lot adjustments for these?

Is it twenty-two to twenty-eight or something like that? Or-

Yeah, I know this area. I think they were twenty to twenty-two, something like that. And then the yellow area is the same thing. I know we went to twenty-two here from twenty. So based on that adjustment, we lost a unit in this town home building here.

So- Have, have you given us, except for this little sketch up here, have you given us what the original was? Are you just telling us what you're going to do now?

We do have the original one here.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

How about these plans? Are we talking just the second sheet? Second sheet. Second sheet. Oh, okay.

There weren't any changes to the streets I don't think. When you look at that, you would just be seeing the original line. The lot changed it, or we changed it.

So... is the original plan?

Yes.

Yes. That's what you call the sheet. Right. So you- I'm trying to-..., you're eliminating the two units.

Correct. We're gonna have a lot of the two units, just trying to incorporate the larger lot.

And I guess what's facilitating this? I mean, is it excess demand or not enough demand or?

There wasn't enough demand for the smaller product type, which is like a T twenty. We had a lot more demand for the T twenty-two, which is what we're proposing. So that's what's driving it. There's just a much more market need for it in this part of...

And you call T twenty-two?

It's just a town home unit. So, it's-

It's twenty feet wide, and wanna make it twenty-two.

The narrower product just wasn't selling as, as quickly as the wider product was based on what we were seeing in phase one. So moving forward, we were just adjusting the mix. Okay.

Questions?

I have a question before you get too much further along. Yeah. I apologize. I'm really new to the Planning Commission, so this is the first time I've seen this plan. I drive by it all the time, but I've never been inside. I'm assuming this is a, what I'd call walkable community, where there's a mix of retail, residential. How much- what's the square footage on the re- on the retail, the commercial?

I think it's gonna be proposed upwards of ten thousand, something like that, ten thousand square feet of commercial. We're still working on finalizing the plans for that area since phase one.

Can you point out where the town center is on there roughly? That would help Kelley.

I have to refresh this. I'm sorry.

It's just to the left of where it says phase three point two on the small plan on the left-hand side. Okay. You can see the commercial- Stationary, yeah. Parking lot.

Yeah. I see the circle. I see.

On the first page of the small plan.

Yeah.

Starting at the top of the first page.

Yes.

This is the commercial. That's three buildings and a parking lot.

Yeah.

I thought it was maybe the last newsletter before that.

I don't care to look at that one. That's what they said last week. Technical problem here.

Okay. That's okay.

That's okay.

Basically, yeah, try to show you from this one. Still here in this corner though, right?

It's right in the middle.

Yes.

Oh, it's not this, it's just the parking lot? Right in the middle.

These are all parking. All three buildings. What's this now? Yeah. That is what we call the cost areas. Commercial. So it's a commercial retail. And they're smaller in scale than probably what you're used to seeing of other developments. What Charter has is really more of those whole foods type of, you know, businesses, whether that's a coffee shop or, you know, like a type of shop, you know, the ones with this type of location and things like that. That's the type of use you have along those lines. Versus like, you know, opening and having like a drive-through there, like a variety store or something, you know, in a triangle neighborhood.

So they're a little more... They're smaller scale, but it's to help walkability and something that you focused on with the floor hard designs as well. So it pulls it into the neighborhood and walks to the city is one area that you see there. It's the same foot in green walk and transit. You can see a more built-out Charter neighborhood at Arcona. I'm familiar with that. You've been there? Yeah.

Okay.

Okay. So having some technical difficulties, so I apologize. But we can keep going through. The only other exhibits that we have in here is of all our labeled changes. If you go to this sheet that has the red with the black underline, that's what shows you in more detail with the switch out to the larger unit in those different buildings.

So the red, red is existing or the black would be existing?

Yeah. I was just gonna say the black is existing. Okay. And then the red is proposed. Oh, the red lines. So the red lines are what the new lot lines would be based on that wider product. The only other change in phase three one that you can see there is we are also proposing some additional on the street, off the street parking, just to provide additional parking in that area.

There's some parallel parking on Josephine Way, and then some head in on Bellflower and a few places.

And then you, you also have in here elimination of open space A-... in there. So what would be the new location for the open space that's being lost?

So there is still going to be... It's kind of hard to see.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. It's... Oh, sorry. There might still be this, I think we just eliminated the last space because of the, the parking reconfiguration.

Right.

Based on where the lot line is falling and where the parking will be located. There'll probably also be a certain berming there, same way as what was there before.

Well, our, so, so the open spaces are-

That's correct. Well, I thought the open spaces, when, when I look at- This, this sheet... they define them as like a neighborhood park.

Let me see.

They're defined as like a neighborhood park-

Mm-hmm... on these plans, so.

Well, yeah, half obviously- A neighborhood park... from the original, it kind of seems like it would be- Yeah. Well, all right. So in this p- this sheet. There's not a little green s- This, this sheet here. Can I just clarify? Mm-hmm. Make sure we're all on the same page. This sheet here shows small OSH. Mm-hmm. Real space. Proposing to eliminate that. Is that correct? So this was going to be... That was what would've been classified as a neighborhood park even before we get rid of that? I don't think we- Well, the, the red is the proposed, right?

Yes. So you actually move the parking further away from that open space.

Okay.

So are you, are you eliminating it then, the open space?

The parking, this parking that was added- Yeah... to make it work.

Well, it doesn't look like it. But, but this is a sketch. I looked at it. Okay. So they plan to eliminate that small open space.

Yeah. And it never was intended to be a park. I think that there might be some disconnect to, to what you're referencing. Some of these areas are just labeled as open space, meaning they aren't going to be single lots for sale. They'd be kind of remnant areas when you think of the living... between buildings to help the streetscape in the way that it's become really more apparent. So that's maybe an open area that can in fact be used for that purpose, like screening or additional landscaping on it. Whereas with a larger open space lot, like lot 13 down here on the right, that's intended to be a part of the larger green area that we would monetize-

So it's partly eliminated because lot 54 and 56 are getting larger. If you see the red bump-outs, it's right under, they're getting- Yeah... the buildings are larger on those single families.

Okay.

I, I see that you have- Yes... decreased the open space. Do we, do we have access to the calculations on now open space?

Mm-hmm, yeah. We'll give you all the accounts that come in the new plan next meeting to show in table form how whatever it's affected.

Just to, just to familiarize everybody who has an issue, the park, and if I'm wrong...

No, you got that right...

the park of the area where everybody's going to congregate is this piece here called the great lawn, and that is in phase four.

Yeah. And also page one is the large open space, where it says phase one.

Yep.

Walking trail, open space.

When you come into development on the left-hand side-

Mm-hmm

... all of that is open space. In the stormwater as well. The areas beyond the major drainage ways, the overbank areas, are part of the open space as well. Are you talk-

Are you talking about the rails, or are you talking about-

No, we're talking here at the overbank areas. Correct, David? Yes.

Yes. It is-

Well, it's more, there's a large, you know, series of large spaces

So this large area in between phase one and two is a stormwater facility. And it's intended, it's designed to obviously become a stormwater, but also just from an aesthetic perspective of more like kind of open pasture. So from-

They're designed to be dry.

Yeah. Yeah.

They infiltrate.

So the additional open space in that area in the neighborhood, that is not going to be obviously a park. That's just the, the stormwater management facility that, just outside the development.

So if I, if I could, Dave Kegerize. The answer to your question on the open space calc, it's a part of the packet. We have, we have the approved recorded conceptual master plan. Flip the page, there's a draft conceptual master plan, and those numbers in the tables have been updated in that. Just wanted to let you know.

Thank you.

I think that answers that question.

So- Here. Can I ask a couple questions? Sure.

Mm-hmm.

David, from what I hear Laura saying, and Ken, we did meet with, with Dave and Laura last week or the week before, and I have some notes, and I pulled those notes out this morning to make sure that everybody, that we're all on the same page, and that I do in fact understand. Streets aren't changing. No. Storm sewer's not changing. No. Stormwater management's not changing. No. Water line, water and sewer. Obviously, there will be some units. There'll be laterals that we- Okay. Slight, slight adjustments on the lateral. They, they probably have not been constructed. No, they have not been. They have not been constructed yet.

But from a design perspective, only slight adjustments. So the only changes that I see are the individual lot lines are being shifted, even made, are made larger, and that's demonstrated in this exhibit here. The red- The red, the little red lines are the new lines. The underlay, the dark lot lines underneath are the originals. So from what I can see here, again, looking at just this sketch and our conversations, the infrastructure for this project is not changing one bit. And right now, I think I asked this question when we met, total number of units proposed before this change is the total number of dwelling units.

Across the- I think it was 600... 654.

And the proposed number of dwelling units after the change is-

652.

Thank you. Yep.

654 to 66-

664 to 662 across phases one through four. There's a chart on the next page. There is, yeah.

We're just rearranging the phasing a little bit-

Right... eliminating two units. Other than that, eliminating a couple laterals, too. The ones that are taken out, that's it.

Right. Yeah, that's all that they're doing, and that's based on par- the market. Correct. The size of the market and the product. Adding a little bit of over, overflow parking in one area. I do remember when this was first submitted that with the master plan, there was discussion that the master plan would be a dynamic plan, that it was subject to change based on the market. So this really doesn't surprise me.

So there will be new

final plans that have been submitted for this. This is just-

Yeah, this was the intent tonight was just to provide you with a walk through the changes so that you could understand them and help us hear any questions that you might have. It's just a sketch submission. Our intent in talking with staff and looking actually afterwards was, yes, we'll submit a revised master plan and final plan for two, three, four to reflect these changes, and it does show people the progress.

We asked them to come and present this as a sketch plan, so when the final plans are submitted, you're prepared. Mm-hmm. What you're going to see.

What's the thinking on the Trindle Road exit or the traffic study on to Fairmount or whatever the road is there by the-

Well, I'll, I'll tell you what I... the last I heard, I don't know for sure-

Yeah

... is that there are still issues with PennDOT. Actually, yeah. I mean- Yeah. It comes up- PennDOT, it's, it's a neg- In the negative. We're in the negative. They're in the negative with PennDOT. PennDOT is not too pleased with what is proposed on Trindle Road at present. But from what I understand from Anthony Dietrich, is that they're trying to, the Grange is trying to work something out with some neighbors to get the- Model... to get the, a common exit with the connector road that's coming from- Traffic light there... from South Middleton actually.

But that'll be for future phases. And-

That's phase five.

You asked me about Army Heritage Drive, Jim. That's where they're building like six large apartment buildings, and there will be another road that enters onto Army Heritage as part of that.

Right. Yeah. I mean, I, I remember the conversation two years ago about, you know, what was gonna come first, construction or the roads. And so now we're at a stage where we're gonna have-

Well, there's a maximum number of units, and then they have to establish that exit onto Trindle Road, access onto Trindle. Oh. They're, they're not there yet. Do you recall what that number is? They're not there yet with these first four pages. These first four phases are already approved. Yeah. And recorded. So they're not there yet with what they've done so far. Not there yet.

What do you mean, not there yet?

The number of units where they have to build a road out to Trindle. Yeah. It's somewhere around- In the, in the master developer's agreement- Developer's... they're required to do some periodic studies to determine impact, existing impact at the time of the study- Right... on Ar- Army Heritage and the surrounding network- Right... which includes the intersection at Trindle Road- Right... and the intersection at Claremont.

Right.

And if those traffic studies indicate that there is a problem or there is an overload- Right... then that would demand that the second entrance point to Army Heritage Drive would be constructed.

That's what I'm asking about- Yes... because 600 square homes, that's 1,300 vehicles- Yeah... in a very small area.

Yeah. Yeah. I think we're getting a development across the street-

The, the other-

On the connector, which is very much the same as this. Yeah, across Trindle Road?

On the connector. Yeah, Army

Heritage Village that's been planned for years in South Middleton.

Yeah, like another 800 homes right there.

And the, and you're right, the entire 600 and some units will, are not designed to come out to Army Heritage.

Yeah, that's what I'm just saying, because I don't think there's been a traffic study since this, since the first one, right? They actually did update it recently.

Or was it this spring? They ha- they, they have updated it.

And they are trying, because of the issues with PennDOT, PennDOT's being pretty insistent on trying to get the exit from phase five in this development to line up with- Right... the connector road.

Because the weight on that small section of Trindle Road is significant. Right.

Well, now, do we have to recommend approval or denial on this or not? No, not- No. Right on your agenda, actually, it's informal just for your information. Yeah. I want you guys to understand where it's coming from. I even suggested to them, maybe some of you haven't been down to see the development, if you'd like to go down and have a tour of it or something. They do a good job. It's a very progressive development, even though it looks tight. Yeah. There is open land in this development.

I always wanted you to do that for anyone who's interested.

You've got the silo stand and the farmhouse. Mm-hmm. What is the planned use of the farmhouse?

So the farmhouse is... phase one, that's home plate one right there. So we would renovate that and sell it.

As a dwelling?

Right.

Okay. And there is two houses behind it shown on the plan.

Exactly.

To be constructed. Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

What I would just arrange is, you know, I would get the gathering big area of the amenities around the benches and things like that. I can get it up with, I think, already built up, and potentially putting a little... there. Mention in here reducing the length of the retaining wall.

So what would-

Is that on the map?

Why, why would you be doing that, and what, if any, impact would that have?

Excuse me. Hey, Terry. So, there were, okay, the wall previously was shown sitting behind the single family lots going to the east. I'm looking at this survey model. Exhibit three. Survey three. You see the very top of the plan with the black commercial, the black- The black wall is what, and the red would be the new documented proposed wall. Oh, I see. They're shortening it. If you see it on exhibit three, probably if you follow Destiny Road straight up to the top, you see a little stub of a red wall.

And the black wall was what was proposed, and they want to shorten it. So here. That's right. That's-

The grades there allowed us to remove it, wasn't it? To eliminate part of that wall, they would need it regraded.

So that's just one grade change. Okay.

Mm-hmm. I thought it was positive adding the smaller pockets. It's about maybe 15, 12 to 15 parking lots in, within the neighborhood, like overflow. I, I saw that as positive. And so-

The overflow parking.

Yeah.

So they're, they're adding overflow parking.

Yeah. That's, that's a good idea. I think that's a comment we made originally. Originally.

Yes, we did. Kind of short on parking. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, you can get them in the garage, you can try to put in the garage. Good. They'll fit in my house. I had them pull one in a townhouse, so. Is that the town one? Yeah. Nice. Just carry them in. You wouldn't hold water.

Sure. No, I'm saying a post office in a pizza shop. Turn it in. Any other questions? Thanks. Appreciate the update on, for us new folks that are just getting bearing on this. Absolutely. That's a big reason we wanted to call as well as groups, new members. So we were looking to submit something in the next deadline in December for a December meeting, so that we would be done.

I'll, I'll get you a build-out analysis, Robynn. Bill pointed out I did not have it in the last newsletter, and I thought I did in one of them. But basically phase one, about a good bit of that is build-out except the apartments. In phase two, probably 60% or something.

I'll get you a copy.

Great. Mark, your numbers are in the summer newsletter. Yeah.

I thought I- You know, I was in your brain, Mark.

Okay. Well, we'll get them from you.

Hold on. Is there any public comment on this... Okay.

All right. I have nothing else. I move to adjourn the meeting. Is there a second? Second.

We're moving and second to adjourn. All in favor say aye. (Ayes.) Opposed, nay. We're adjourned. Nice and done.

Is that the quickest version?

Yep.

On the record?

Yes.

That was fast.