Wednesday, October 7, 2026

Let me call the meeting of Middlesex Township Supervisors for the month of October to order. Let us rise, remove our hats and say the pledge. And Joe, will you please lead us?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

For those of you who don't know, this is your new supervisor, Joe Vancosky.

Can you use the microphone, please? Thank you. The microphone.

We're just introducing the new supervisor, Joe Vancosky. It's his first public meeting.

Awesome.

Welcome aboard. Thank you.

Hello, Joe.

Oh, thank you. I guess we'll start out with public comment for items that do not appear on the agenda.

Hilda Vazquez, Country Manor West.

State your name, please.

I have a comment. I'm a star verified in wallpaper relative to, relative to data center, and I found 120 South Middlesex have some connection. You know something about that? Or you can talk later about that? I know that McNaughton sold that land, the land, 248 and data center have now for master plan. They try and make 1C and Country Club Road. But the master plan, really master plan that they start with, under Cumberland North is in 120 South Middlesex. Because McNaughton tried construction there, Cumberland Valley Commons, in 2014.

Some connection about that, I don't know if you can answer it later. But the 120 have significant water connection and sewer, too. Because if, if Cumberland North really finish that project in that moment, McNaughton try cross the line under the 11, under the podium, and connect in 120 South. I have all paper at home. I have all connection with widow. I have all information. If you have some information and you can share with the resident, it's important. Because I know 120 South Middlesex is important with data center. Because the master plan started in 120, not in Country Club Road. Change now because the Middlesex putting overlay.

John Manta,... I just wanna make a comment about respect. We've had this comment several times before. We've had this conversation several times before, about people yelling at residents, residents yelling at supervisors, and I just want to bring it to everyone's attention now. It's not gonna be tolerated anymore. If you feel the need to yell at somebody, go out in the restroom and do it. Thank you.

Viola Byerly, Country Club Road. I would like to know, do you guys know what the rule is about putting mail in mailboxes that do not come to the post office? Anybody familiar with that at all?

No.

No? It's illegal.

It's illegal.

So PAX-1 dropped in our mailbox today, return a well water testing consent form, which I do appreciate that. However, this was not, did not go through the mail and was dropped in my mailbox. I guarantee you, if I had done this with one of my flyers to stop PAX-1, somebody would've called and lodged a complaint. I'm just gonna tell you, you need to let them know that that is not acceptable. They may knock on my door, they may drop it in my door. They may put it on my front step or my back step, but this is not acceptable. If I had done it, you would've called me out.

That's number one. Number two, the front hillside at my home for years has not been mowed because we plant it with native species. We do it very specifically and after the bloom season is done, we allow the photosynthesis to happen in order for the bulbs and the roots to grow on the ground for next year. This helps support our natural bees and butterflies. Somebody from the township mowed my front hillside today. My front hillside has not been mowed in 20 years. I would like it duly noted, please do not, do not mow my front hillside again. There is a reason why it's left, and it's not hanging in the road, and it's not unduly- necessary.

We keep track of it, and we do it for a specific reason. So I'm not sure how that note fell off. But if we could please make sure that that doesn't happen again, I'd appreciate it. I know Donna used to stand out at the front hillside to make sure her phlox didn't get mowed down. I don't really have time to do that 'cause I'm not retired, but I would appreciate it if I could get put back on the no-mow list. And then my third one is about the Country Club Road widening with PAX-1. So I brought up my notes when we had the Conterra conversations and the other development conversations.

And one of the things that was discussed widely when developing those particular neighborhoods was not widening the road. And the reason behind that was because people have a tendency to speed and go faster when the roads are widened. So they were specifically being kept narrow. So as somebody who lives on that road and understands that people in crotch rockets and big, like, loud trucks love to use our road as a speedway, I would just like to know if any consideration or actual studies have been done on that roadway about the speed and maybe giving reconsideration to not widening it out as much as they'd want to.

I'm not saying not to do it, but I'm saying have we actually looked at a study on that? And then why are we widening it other than to become compliant with maybe another road? Because as soon as you hit that corner, I can pretty much tell you what vehicles it are that run up our road like it's a speedway. There's two particular crotch rockets and three particular trucks. But if you widen that road, it's gonna give people a mindset to move forward quickly. So if we could please reconsider that, and even go back and look at your notes to see why was that given as an option.

Is it just because we wanna be like other roads? 'Cause that's not like other roads. And then also noted is the fact that we have a ton of bicyclers, and this week in particular, there were a bunch out. So as they're looking at doing a side, that shoulder, I think that's a great idea, and I just wanted to let you know because we have so many bicyclers, I would encourage that to stay. But if we could really look at why that road's being widened, I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

You know, just a comment about the-

Yeah.

... dropping in the mailbox. I- Yeah... I don't know the postal service regulations. I'll certainly reach out to the developer and tell them a resident brought up a concern with that. I think it's certainly a valid concern. Thanks. And I know the widening of the road, I mean, that's something I guess, you know, if the project proceeds in the future, we'll discuss with the engineering team, and to see, you know, how the road would be, you know, widened compared to what it currently is. Yeah. So that's something that we would look at in the future, but I appreciate your, you know, your concerns.

I did. I just went back and looked at my notes previously as to why they decided during the build-out of the other development not to do that, and it was because of concern that there's a mentality when you widen the road that people have the feeling of unconstraint. So, you know, we have a lot of people that back out on that road

And in terms of mowing, I know our road master is here, so I guess he'll talk to his team about that. I appreciate it.

Yeah. Thank you.

Ma'am, ma'am, also on the road, the main thing to widen is the shoulders so that there's adequate shoulders. And what brought that up were people on bi-

Bicycling. Yeah. On the road. That's a huge road for bicycling. Yeah. So I think that's definitely a need. I would highly encourage that one. Thank you.

Sure.

Yeah.

Hi, I'm Michelle Skurzynski, and I live in Country Manor West. I have two maps here from the Cumberland County Planning Department. One is from 2024 to 2025, and one is from 2026 on till August of 2026. It shows the industrial use and how much it has changed in just one year. I would like to share those with you, and I have extra copies if anybody else would like to see them. I will put them on the desk over here. Anybody else want a copy?

We'll make copies for the team. All right. Thank you. MS4 stormwater, Zach?

We submitted our annual report last week. Pretty much all I have, we have an agenda item on down about a city stormwater contract, but, yeah, that's... It was due on the 30th of September. We got it in on the 30th of September, so.

Our annual report in. So the minutes from September 2nd and September 25, 2026, we need a motion for approval. Move to accept the minutes of September the 2nd, 2026. And September 25, 2026. Oh, 25. That's right, 25 and 26. Move second. September the 2nd and September the 25th. I'll second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Authorized payment of bills for October of 2026. I'll make a motion we authorize payment of the bills for October 2026. Do I have a second? Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Go through reports. Lester, you have anything?

Yeah, I just want to announce that there was an executive session with the board immediately before this meeting for about an hour concerning litigation. Engineering?

Nothing that is not on the agenda.

Police were called out. They did give us a report as usual. Fire? Oh gosh. Do we have- Chief Beam... Chief Beam. I've got it. Okay, thank you. Zoning. Mark, anything?

You can take them on to record. I gave you most of the permits.

Yeah, I see. Codes enforcement, Gary?

You can take mine on the record.

Road master.

You have the road master report there. The team did do their 2026 paving throughout the month of September. They completed paving down Briar Patch. Some paving on Sherwood Drive between Bernheisel and Deer Lane. They did some widening on Mountain Road, and then did some work down on South Middlesex along the shoulder down there at Christopher Parish Field.

Recreation, I assume we take hers as in the record?

Yes.

Municipal authority. You have it?

No, nothing's changed. Everything is moving along as planned. Eventually you will see us start to enlargen the tank that's right there off 81. Gonna add some more gallons to it. It was interesting to me to learn that they do it from the bottom up.

Mm-hmm.

You know, put this way.

Manager, anything?

You have two reports there. One's the report from the county, for, not county, sorry, for Cumberland County Tax Bureau, which is not part of the county, for LST and EIT for the month of September. We are tracking a little above what we were doing last year, so on both of those. And then you also have a report here that has the different fund accounts balances, previous balance, and then deposits and withdrawals throughout the month of September. I want to draw your attention to, specifically on the first page, the second line down, the complete account that we opened.

We have made a couple transfers over into that account. It's already earned over... in interest. So it's doing fairly well earning interest for that account.

And I know we've had this discussion a few times about LST for workers at the PAX-1 site, and I think the outcome of the discussions we've had with the Cumberland County Tax Bureau is that that's really between the tax bureau and the employer.

Right. And I have sent information to the employer, well, Whiting-Turner, their current contractor down there. I've sent information to them about enrolling with the tax bureau on that, so.

Okay. Thank you. Unfinished business for discussion, possible motion or recommendation to release the maintenance security the township is holding for Jack Williams, Mavis Tire, TPF 18-02, land development plan. Well, we are, again- There's a whole bunch of emails that have gone back and forth over the last few weeks and-

Yes, I can. First of all, we'll start out by saying that I made a mistake in my recommendation to you to allow them to go October the 14th, when the letter of credit actually expires on the 10th. Now, the bank knows this. You can see that in the exchange of emails. And between the bank, in conversation with them, I am now recommending that you rescind that motion. And if they are not on site tomorrow morning at 8:00, at 9:00, which is the 8th, that we start the process to pull the bond, the letter of credit. I have spoken with the bank, and they are with...

They are consistent with that. Again, every month it goes to the very last minute. So time is up. So tomorrow morning, I will be out there at 9:00, and if they're not there working, Keith, you'll get a call.

So what's the best way to state the motion?

The motion would be to call in the s-

Security- Line of credit... in the event that there's no activity tomorrow morning by-

9:00. 9:00. All right, I'll make a motion that the township call on the line of credit in the event that there's no activity by 9:00 AM on October 8th, 2026, in regards to the Jack Williams Mavis Tire property. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion carries.

Thank you very much. That's been going on- Since April... absolutely.

Yeah, there's a lot of pointing fingers in those emails on their side.

Oh, yeah.

All right, move on to new business. Discussion and possible motion to reschedule a public hearing for amendment to the township zoning ordinance permitting PSES as a conditional use in the institutional zoning districts. And that was originally scheduled for today, and it's being postponed. And I think the main reason it was being postponed is that we were looking for outside legal counsel to represent the Board of Supervisors, given the fact that our solicitor- For the township is also solicitor for Cumberland County.

Mm-hmm.

And we were not able to obtain legal counsel for today. So we're gonna try to move it to December 2nd, 2026 at 6:00 PM for a public hearing. So I'll make a motion that we reschedule the public hearing for amendment to the township zoning ordinance permitting PSES as a conditional use in the institutional zoning districts to December 2nd, 2026 at 6:00 PM. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion carries.

Moving on, discussion and possible motion on the approval of a long-term maintenance agreement between the developers of Rise Cannabis Dispensary Land Development Plan TPF 24-19 in Middlesex Township. Bud, I guess you're gonna- Yes...

speak to this.

This is for the long-term maintenance of the delineators that we are requiring them to install from just short of the intersection with Harrisburg Pike back to within a short distance of the exit driveway of Harmon's. The reason for the delineators is obviously because of the cross traffic that is occurring from people trying to make a left into the dispensary- We're talking after Rise... at Rise. Yes. So, as part of the approval on the subdivision plan, the subdivision plan was approved with those as an improvement, but we need a maintenance agreement to provide the township with some security in case those delineators need to be replaced and repaired, or whatever.

So that's the purpose of it. Keith has looked at the agreement, and he's okayed it, so I will now forward that agreement, with your approval tonight, I will forward that agreement on to Rise for their review and execution.

While you're on that subject, I'm really concerned about where the wall is going.

We're gonna have traffic soup up there because you can't turn left coming off the turnpike.

No. At all. I mean, you can't. No, you can't turn left- No... off the turnpike. Even if we had a signal there. The signal, but the signal does not go into that property. It's backed out. No. Well, the access to the property is off of Sunday Drive. Not Harrisburg Pike. But the turning lane- There is a turning lane to make a left. That's a signal. I can't- Yeah. That's new to me. Huh? What? The concrete island- Yeah... starts back at the turnpike. Oh, you're talking about the concrete, the divider? Yeah. The divider.

Nobody can make or come off the turnpike left. Well, that's the way the plan was approved. But I'm just saying it's gonna be a mess. It was approved. There was a traffic study done. It was approved, Keith. Yeah. Okay.

So the-

Wawa's happy with it. They don't seem to think it's an hindrance...

In terms of the Rise, this is the... - Yes... security, in the amount of $331,956.34.

Correct.

So... Should have been the maintenance agreement. Right. Yeah, so I'll make a motion to approve the long-term maintenance agreement between the developers of the Rise Cannabis Dispensary Land Development Plan TPF number 24-19 in Middlesex Township. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Thank you for your work on this, Bud. You are very welcome. I'm still curious to see how it's gonna turn out because people are really used to turning, you know, right onto Middlesex- Yeah... heading north and turning left into there. So I think probably a lot of people are gonna have to come down and cross the bridge- Yep, yep... and they'll go into- Yep...

the park parking lot and come out. They will learn a new route. Yeah. They'll figure it out.

Unless they're high.

Next is discussion and possible motion on extension of review time for final land development plan for PAX-1, Phase 1C to November 4th, 2026. The current review ends October 17th, 2026. The board of supervisor action deadline was today as our last meeting prior to the review ending. Mark, this was just a request by the developer for more time?

Yes. The developer actually grants the township additional time, and you just accept it or approve it. I don't see any reason not to.

He would be extending it until November 4th. I don't see any reason why he wouldn't extend it.

It's a pretty... deal. Joe? I agree.

So I'll make a motion to grant the extension review time for the final land development plan for PAX-1, Phase 1C to November 4th, 2026. Do I have a second? Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion carries.

Discussion and possible motion to appoint Kim Davis to the Recreation Advisory Board. Kim's here. You wanna stand up and wave to everyone? Absolutely. We did talk to Kim earlier today. Always appreciate people that are willing to step up and give their time to the township. I know you said you helped out with the fall festival, and again, appreciate your willingness to step up.

So I'll make a motion to appoint Kim Davis to the Recreation Advisory Board. Do I have a second?

I'll second. Well, okay, go ahead. I got it. I'll second that.

All those in favor?

Aye.

Aye. Motion carries. Thank you, Kim. Thank you. Now you can go home to your cranky 11-year-old.

All right, next discussion, possible motion to hire John Gsell III as a full-time highway department employee with a six-month probation period.

Yeah, so we had one of our highway employees left at the end of July, so we've been down an employee since July. We did some advertising on our website. We did get three applications. We interviewed two of those, and John Gsell definitely seems like he's one that fits. He's got quite a few qualifications. He's really interested in starting in with the highway department, getting on board.

Any questions? Second. Any questions?

I'll make a motion to hire John Gsell III as a full-time highway department employee with a six-month probation period. Do I have a second? Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye.

Can I ask a question real quick? Is it normal to do a six-month probation period? That's really long. We don't even do that in the private sector.

She's asking about the six-month probation period.

Private sector. I thought it was long. What's the township's normal period?

That... Yeah, that's been the period that we've been using- Pretty much... for quite a while now, yeah. So it kind of mirrors the poli-, I mean, the police contract, it mirrors the same thing that they do. So they have a six-month probationary period. The township's kind of mirrored that as far as employee manuals. Hm, okay.

Yeah, that's, that, and- It just seems extremely long. Yeah, I mean, it's certainly an important job, and they're dealing with a lot of big equipment, and they're plowing and- Yeah... things of that sort. So I think it's good to- Yeah... to give people time to get through the winter season to make sure things go well.

Yeah, being that we're, I mean, we are a small staff, so it gives you time, too, to see how they interact with your other employees and stuff. They are... So just so everybody knows, I mean, you are available. They get health insurance and that kind of stuff up front, holidays up front, personal days up front. The biggest thing, I mean, vacation time doesn't start for six months, so that keeps them back a little bit. But yeah, health insurance and personal days and the holidays, they all start up front. Okay, thank you.

Discussion with possible motion on contract for MS4 support services with Terracon for a proposal through September 30th, 2028.

So Terracon, though the contract looks new, the team's the same. Skelly and Loy, who we used to use, they were actually purchased by Terracon. For a while, they operated as Skelly and Loy, a Terracon company. They've been slowly transitioning to Terracon. So the company Skelly and Loy is now Terracon, but it is the same team that we've been working with through several contracts now. As long as I've been on board, we've been working with Carol Eckert and her team for the stormwater. And they can take care of a lot of the stuff like preparing the MS4 reports.

One of the things that's gonna be actually in this contract, through every permit period, we have to actually go out and do outfall inspections, so that's included in this contract. And it is, like, a time and material, so the contract has an end date, but they can actually sometimes sneak out a few more days beyond the end of the contract 'cause money's still left in the contract. So it's more of a time and material contract. And I know, Phil, I think you had asked how to compare to the prior contract. The contract itself is pretty much the same.

There's, I believe the last contract was about $138,000 for a little bit shorter duration of time. So the fees are pretty much the same as what they were in the previous contract, which actually expired in 2025. So we've been working under that contract from 2025 to the current.

So the monthly contract price you think is fairly similar? Yeah. This is $215,600. That's, yeah, over the- And you can just let people, you know, the public know, 'cause some people don't know what MS4 is and why, you know, we have to participate. Not every municipality is an MS4 municipality. So if you wanna just educate people.

Correct. So it started... So the federal government actually put it in place back in the '70s with the Clean Water Act. But the state's been doing it, I believe, since 2004 period. Is that about right? And as municipalities grow, especially the urbanized areas, and for Middlesex it's actually more because of the industrial area that we do have in and around the Harrisburg Pike, we fall into an MS4 area, which, you're gonna test me now, it stands for Municipal Separate Storm Sewer System. So the M is municipal, and then the four S's. And then we have a permit through DEP that we are required every five years renew that permit, and the requirements of that permit within that permit period, our current permit that we're operating under- Kind of just status quo.

The previous permit we had a lot of projects that we had to complete. They are now all completed. We finished our last project, which was the stream restoration project over off Wolf's Bridge Road. That one's still... The plants are starting to get establishment, so we gotta continue to inspect that one. But it is a requirement of the state that we are enrolled in this program.

Yeah, I might add, it's part of the Chesapeake Bay overall environmental system. And because of that, the federal government passed this down to the state to adopt a program to control pollutions from urbanized areas, and we have an area in this township that qualifies for an urbanized area that has potential runoff carrying pollutants. And because of that, we're required by... to have this be enrolled in this program.

I know there's been discussion, not in Middlesex, but statewide over the last few months, whether charging a fee to implement this program was legal or not. It's kind of been back and forth, but Middlesex has been fortunate. We had some grant money through the Mariner Pipeline. And then we've continued to try to get more grants through Growing Greener grants to try to offset the cost. Obviously, some tax money has been used to continue this program, but we have been fortunate to get grants to cover most of the cost of the projects and the implementation of the program.

And there are municipalities within the county that do have a stormwater tax. Correct. Right. Yeah. Did we get an answer on that?

We didn't really clarify. So are we allowed to charge? 'Cause it seemed like the user should pay their way.

I think right now they're saying that... And Keith, maybe you could clarify, but they're actually saying the fees are not to be charged. But I think it's still in the court system and being worked back and forth.

The taxes can rise.

Yeah. So it's the fee actually, instead of taxes, they're actually saying the fee is a tax, essentially what it is. Right. In terms of the-

There's a Borough of West Chester case, the Supreme Court said, Pennsylvania Supreme Court said that it's not a fee, it is a tax. Now, there are many people much smarter than I am on this subject, but from what I understand, if you have a municipal authority that charges a fee, which is specifically authorized under the state's Authorities Act, that has not been impacted by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court's decision. Hampden Township was the first municipality in the state to implement a stormwater authority based on that rule a number of years ago. A number of years ago, excuse me. And I know there are other authorities that charge a fee, and that is not impacted.

But for other municipalities, with the exception maybe of a second-class township, there's special legislation for them to charge a fee. It has impacted a number of municipalities.

And I think the... When you and Jerry and I took a tour of the latest project in the spring, and that was our MS4 project, as you mentioned, off of Wolf's Bridge Road. And the people were incredibly knowledgeable. They were really quite impressive. So I was very happy, you know, to be involved in that tour and get to learn some of what they do. So I'll make a motion that we accept the contract for MS4 support services with Terracon per proposal through September 30th, 2028. Second. All those in favor? Aye.

Aye.

Discussion and possible motion on lease contract renewal with Doceo or Doceo- Doceo... for printer services for police department. So

the police department, they're probably one of the hearts of business. Their contract for their printer copier is coming up to be due in December. So we were working with our local representative here. And they are COSTARS, and these are COSTARS prices. They're looking at a brand-new machine. The price actually went down just recently. So we got good news for them. I did check with the chief, I know he's not here tonight, but I did check with him about it. Of course, any opportunity to maybe save some money is a good thing. So it's going down a little over, $10.50 per month.

And then the actual price for copies is going down a little as well, to $146.50 a month. And then.0092 for black and white, and 0.47 for color copies.

How long is the contract? It wasn't clear to me in the email.

Three years.

Okay.

Five years.

Yeah. I'll get you an answer for that. Yeah, five years. Okay. I forgot about this. Yeah, certainly anything you can do to, you know, keep prices low and save the taxpayer dollar is a good thing. So I'll make a motion to approve the lease contract renewal with Doceo for printer services for the police department. Do I have a second? Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Thank you.

A preliminary discussion of 2027 township budget. Speaking of trying to save money. Yeah.

So I did, I provided you guys, again, there's a lot of stuff on this budget that we haven't really got to yet. Working through some numbers. I've met with the chief, worked through some of his numbers. There's still a lot of information that we need to gather. So these numbers again are just preliminary numbers. Tomorrow we're actually planning on, there's a meeting set up to actually meet with our health insurance. You know, Joe and I actually met with a representative last week to try to see how we could help offset the cost, but there appears to be, there may have been a significant increase to the cost for that next year.

So that is reflected in this budget at this time. A lot of the stuff is holding pretty much steady from last year to this year, with the exception of health insurance. But I guess maybe to start, revenue. Revenue's gonna creep up a little bit. We're not looking at trying to raise taxes next year, other than just the actual tax base itself is gonna continue to go up. So that'll help generate a little more revenue. I'm sure you guys wanna look that over. If you have any questions, again, we'll continue to work through this, probably here at the end of the month, October 26th meeting, we get maybe more into depth, go through line item by line item.

I wanna take some time here over the next couple weeks and actually work with Eileen to do a budget to actual comparison more wrap for 2026, to see how we're comparing and get some of those numbers squared away to actually put those into the 2026 budget then.

Yeah. I'm sure as everyone can imagine the, you know, cost with health insurance is substantial, substantial part of the budget. So Zach and I did meet with the representative from Benecon and asking for ways to save money. Which really amounts to offsetting some of the cost to the employees. But, you know, which is always a difficult thing to ask, but I think we have to look at that, and we are. And I think it's okay under Sunshine for the supervisors to be together in a meeting to discuss the budget.

Is that correct?... In public. In public, right. Yeah. Okay. So Supervisor Vancosky can meet with Zach and talk about the budget. And I can meet with him separately and talk about the budget.

Yes. We can meet with him separately. Two or more of you must do it publicly to discuss the budget.

Right. Yeah. Right. Okay. This is our, for Joe and I, this will be the first budget that- Yeah... that, I mean, I certainly looked at the budget last year, at the end of last year, and spent a lot of time with Zach and Eileen talking about the budget and where the numbers come from, and spent some time with our auditor looking at budgetary numbers. So I think I have a pretty good basis, but so certainly something I'd encourage, encourage all- Yes... all of us to pitch in, to look at the budget and ways to, you know, save if we can.

So thank you for that.

Any other supervisor comments?

I have none.

Staff comments?

I just wanna add one thing with Terracon. They have always, another way where they have tried to help us to save is they've been willing to come in and work with our talented group of, like, highway employees, and train them, or any of the other staff, train them to be able to do some of the work so that it's not an expense to us if they're doing it. So that has been one thing I've always appreciated working with that company.

That's their copy providers.

No, that's Terracon. That is what we're- Oh, I thought you said Scalable. Yeah. I'm sorry. They take the time to train our people to do the work in house so that we don't have to pay them to do it. Right. So I've always appreciated them doing that.

That's very nice. Questions, Mrs. Byerly?

Yes. I just had a question for the health insurance. Is our township purchasing it on its own for our employees here, or are we purchasing it in conjunction with Cumberland County being the overarching entity? Because obviously it's a lot less expensive if we go in with other people than to just purchase it on our own.

You know what, Zach, discuss that.

Yeah. We are part of a consortium, so there's multiple municipalities. The consortium's actually called PMHIC. And then Benecon is our kind of local representative to that PMHIC. But it is a consortium of multiple municipalities that go together to purchase health insurance.

Thank you. That makes sense.

Mr. Renfro? Procedural question to protect Bud a little bit. When you, in accordance with Robert's Rules of Order, I believe that it states that in order to rescind a motion, you have to vote to rescind that motion before you can make another one. Is that correct, Mr. Oyer?

I don't know. I mean, Bill- Bill did it. I can tell you what- That's why I'm asking. I can tell you this. When Bill rescinded, give me a second. When Bill rescinded his motion, he had to make a motion to rescind and then make a new motion.

Not necessarily. The Robert's Rules of Order generally are followed by the table, or this board, but if they do something outside the rules of order- It does not validate them. That's part of the policy that they adopted- I'm just looking out for Mark...

about a year ago.

I look out for Mike, too. Sometimes he's difficult to look at, though.

So what's the answer to the question? You don't need a motion to rescind it? No. Okay, thank you.

I-

Colyer.

Yeah. I just had a quick question. I noticed on Mertz Road and Deer Lane, there's a Flock camera, and I was just wondering, I'm assuming the township paid for that. Was that in the budget, or was that added, or how did we- I think there were one, two that came- How did that come about?

Well, it just... this was new.

We've had a couple, but

... Yeah, I would have to... I know the chief's not here to answer that, but I would have to let the chief answer that question.

So we can bring that up at the next meeting with, when Chief Passwater is here. He had an emergency and couldn't be here tonight, but it's certainly a valid question. Thank you.

Isn't that part of our budget, though, right?

The Flock camera, I don't think itself is specified in the budget, but he does have certain monetary, certain line items that he can pull things out of. So it would've been one of those line items that he pulled something out in order to-

So we have to make-

... have that agreement with the Flock service...

Is that then at the next monthly meeting in November, that we would get an answer for that?

We can talk about it there, or if you guys are at the October meeting, we can talk about it there too.

And I guess my concern is, I know they're really expensive, right? And I know there's a lot of talk nationally and in the state about are these gonna be banned, you know? So to put that much money into something that may or may not be useful is concerning, as a resident, I guess.

Yeah. No, I think it's a very valid question, so we'll get more answers when- Yeah... Chief Passwater is able to be here for the next meeting. We have to have executive session regarding pending litigation. Current, current litigation. Yeah.

And personnel matters. And personnel matters. Okay.

Moved.

Meeting adjourned.

Oh, hey, don't forget the surveys. The surveys on the table. Yeah, for the comprehensive plan. If you haven't completed the survey, please, please pick them up.

I think there's a QR code you can scan-

After adjournment.

The microphones catch a few words of room conversation from an audience member as the recording ends. Not transcribed: it is private conversation after the meeting closed.