Monday, August 24, 2026

Meeting will come to order, and we'll start with the Pledge of Allegiance led by John Manna John Manta.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, is there any public comment? Tonight we're only gonna be discussing about the solar energy system. So if you have any comments on the solar, wait till that. But if you have any public comment about anything not on the agenda, now is the time. You have the mic.

Hello, my name's Michelle Skurzynski. I just wanted to ask about the supervisor's meeting. On the website it says that it will be on the 2nd at 6:00 here, or do we not have a location yet, or are you planning on having it in the municipal building?

We don't have a confirmed location yet. We're looking for other options, so.

Okay. So how soon do you think we would know, like?

Hopefully by tomorrow. I was in conversations with Cumberland Valley School District ever since last Wednesday.

Okay.

So we're actually looking for an even larger location than what we had last week, so.

Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Yep.

Good evening, everyone. Earl Beam, 30...

On? I don't think it is, Earl.

Earl. Good evening, everybody. This is Earl Beam, Country Club Road. Just a couple of questions I had, something about tonight. First of all, I'm glad to see PAX-1 finally out there moving that big pile of dirt from a house. I don't think Mark really probably had anything to do with it. I talked to some of the people after the meeting complaining about it, and I guess they decided to get tired of me complaining all the time. Second of all, I don't remember at any of the meetings here when the planning commission here was talking to PAX-1, does the township have a comprehensive plan in case of a lithium fire at the site or the evacuation of neighbors if necessary, and who pays for it?

That would be handled, like you said, Brad, after the building's built. That's their... I believe, you know, we talked to contractors, and of course the contractors and developers have emergency response action plan for what they're doing. But for everything that becomes on the site, the

tenant will have to have an emergency response action plan for every possible scenario as well.

Well, is that ever put in any type of writing or anything so they actually have it? I mean, I've never heard that there was or seen anything about it anywhere.

Well, they... the contractors would have one just for what they do. But the stuff that you're speaking of will come with the tenant, and it has to be in a binder and a book or on a computer file that can be shared with everybody as well.

Okay. Thank you. I never heard that, that's why I was asking. Second question, are the minutes that are taken here at the meeting tonight, are they digitized or are... where do I find them? I don't have a computer, so I can't have any way of looking at them. How can I get ahold of them?

We can print you a hard copy, but, I mean, they are on the website.

Well, three people on my street have no computers. I'm just saying. And they ask me, ask the people that are handicapped and don't come to the meetings, they ask me to ask questions for them, and they don't have any... and I said, "Well, I have no idea how you get them." Now, that'd be great if they could, and I'll distribute it to the neighbors. Okay. Thank you very much.

Good evening. John Manta, Wolf Ridge Road. Has there been any new developments with the Diamond Hotel, securing it, keeping kids out of there, keeping homeless people from sleeping in it? And the list of concerns goes on and on. I haven't heard any movement as far as is it being declared a disaster area or hazard area so that somebody could tear it down, or what's the status of it? That's it for now. Thank you.

I just want to check on the meeting. Zach Zook, do you have an answer for that?

It come to the board of supervisor meeting. So...

Seriously?

Yes, Jerry Steigleman's handling that.

I'm sorry.

Stand here, please. Yes. Jerry Steigleman reports on it almost at every board supervisor's meeting. We are working on trying to have it boarded up.

Thank you.

Thank you.

You gotta grow the trees first.

Huh?

You gotta grow the trees first before they can board it up.

All right. We'll now discuss TPF... or wait, we got the... Minutes. Minutes from August 10th.

I make a motion to approve.

Second.

Second it. Moved and second. All those in favor say, "Aye." Aye. Those nay. Motion passed.

Now, we will move on to TPF-2617 TPF 26-17, discussion and possible recommendation on application by Cumberland County for zoning ordinance text amendment to allow principal solar energy systems by conditional use in the institutional district.

Here on the...

Turn your microphone on and talk towards your microphone.

Good evening, I'm Joyce Gerhart with RGS Associates, representing the applicant. And the proposal that's in front of you is to amend the zoning ordinance to allow the principal solar energy system as a conditional use in the institutional zone. Currently, it's allowed as a conditional use in both the highway commercial and in the industrial zones. Cumberland County has a property that's on Army Heritage Drive right along I-81 that's in the institutional zone, and they would like to propose a solar array on that property. It's a 21 acre property, right next to the UGI facility that's right there along 81.

Well, south of that or north of that?

It is south of the UGI. So it's between the UGI facility and Army Heritage.

How many acres would this solar panel array be on?

I don't know exactly, but it would take up a majority of the 21 acre property.

Because under our regulations under the environmental protection section...

Mm-hmm.

...it states, "In no case under the solar project area occupy more than 20 acres of class one and class two soils..."

Right.

"...as identified by the USDA NRCS Web Soil Mapper within the parcel boundary." And I believe the soils are class one.

Yeah. So the property is 21 acres, so I believe the array would be under 20. So we would... If it is the class one soils, I mean, we'd keep it under the 20 acres.

It'll be approximately 17 acres. I'm Seth Berry with Solar and Wind Energy, the project developer.

Mm-hmm.

Just to be sure, I wonder does it, Robin, does it say that on a property less than, more than 20 acres, or less, or just the solar array is to be...

Solar project area.

Project area. That's how it's stated. That defines it then. Yeah. Thank you.

And I believe the minimum acreage for the use is actually 20 acres. So...

Yes. I just wanted to check out how it was stated in the... Well, just with your setback from the property line...

Correct.

...you would have more than an acre.

That would be correct.

Okay. Then there's a strip of land, well, that is the county's property. How much acreage do you have between the solar panel array and the gas facility?

The array property is abutting up to the gas property.

Okay.

So those two properties are adjacent to each other.

All right. Okay. So...

All right. This... Okay then.

Is there multiple properties there?

There are multiple county properties there, but only one of them is being used for the solar array.

Okay. Well, there they show us going right up to it there. Yeah. Here's... I thought this was blank. Now I can see it. Yeah, this has got a... just like that.

Have you researched and determined if any fire code regulations as to the distance between an electrical generating facility and a natural gas storage facility? I don't know.

I have not, Seth. Have you looked into that?

No, we've not looked into that.

What?

We have not looked into that at this point. That has not come up before, but we can look into that.

It seems like something you should look into.

Sure.

I have no information on it either.

Yeah, that's true.

Do you have an approximate idea of how much distance there is between the extreme edge of the solar installation to the homes, the extreme corner of the Grange?

I believe that is about 300 feet.

And that is a wooded area that's between the solar arrays and the green?

Correct. Correct. Yep. Just so you know. That's correct.

Then are there any wetlands that are being impacted by this installation?

Not that we're aware of, but we would have to have someone go out...

So you haven't gone that far yet?

Correct.

Okay. Thank you.

Do you know of any future plans for the rest of that county property?

Yes. Sure, Larry, I'll take that. I'm Kirk Stoner, the director of planning for Cumberland County. So we have three parcels there totaling about 80 acres. Long-term on that one, we're looking at other potential facilities that would meet the intent of the institutional district. We don't have any immediate plans for those properties. The only immediate plan we have is for an additional well for the Middlesex Township Authority that's on the back half of one of our properties. We're currently under negotiation with the authority on that site. So that's the only other plan we have for it. Okay. Just other context for the board as well.

The reason we're bringing this forward, during the development of the Middlesex Township zoning ordinance that was recently adopted, an earlier draft of that ordinance, principal solar energy systems were a permitted use in the institutional district. At some point, that got removed. As we've talked with the supervisors and staff, we're unsure when that happened or if it was intentional or not intentional. Either way, it did happen. It's not included in the use. That's one of the reasons we brought it forward in the discussions we had with the board of supervisors, that it was in there in initial drafts, and then it got taken out at some point.

You know, the supervisors had indicated in some of their meetings that they researched to try and find out if and when that happened and the intent behind it, were unable to do so, at which point they had requested us to prepare this amendment and bring it forward. Okay.

You know, that would be, is interesting as, in of itself what you're discussing here, because we had three years of working on that project, and there were a lot of eyes on that book, on the zoning ordinances. Michael Baker, Troy Chuax working with Mark Carpenter, and Cumberland County was present at all of our meetings that took place. So it just, it seems strange. It begs questions. If... And I guess if this were the Cum...

Cumberland County's property, you know, typically when you're reviewing, you have to review something, and you've got a vested interest in whatever review you're doing, you tend to look at, scrutinize your own

pieces of that project

because you wanna make sure it's accurate and correct.

I would agree with...

And having Cumberland County present throughout our entire process of three years, it was three long years, I don't... It just begs questions to me. Just the whole thing just doesn't seem right.

Well, from my perspective, I don't think it begs questions. It is what it is. And I think your point's a good one. There was never any comment. There were many, many changes along the way, you know, especially in that last 60 days. So it is what it is. My other observations would be that there was an action taken by the board of supervisors early in the year about no more amendments to the zoning ordinance...

Mm-hmm.

...until the comprehensive plan has been completed. I have concern over doors that that opens up, because if this is the first, how many more are we gonna get before the comprehensive plan is completed?

And I think the township is in violent agreement that comprehensive plan needs to be completed. I would ask the county, can you wait a year until the comprehensive plan is completed? My personal views of the use, I think it's a good location for it. I don't think there's any issue really, other than procedural and administrative with regard to the township and how it conducts its business.

Mr. Chairman, the answer to that is no, we can't wait, and I think that as we look at this issue, again, Rob, getting back to your point, yeah, I mean, there were a lot of changes in that ordinance, if you'll have it out. We're not here to cast blame or worry about how stuff got in or out. I think we're here to correct an error that was made. And I think in doing that, we're looking at this as an administrative error. It was made, fix that administrative error. Waiting puts our project in jeopardy. We're already on the cusp of not being able to get this done based upon some of the federal incentives that are out there for energy projects like this.

This project will save Cumberland County over $19 million. This is serious money for us. It's not just serious money for us, it's serious money for everybody sitting in the room. That money goes back into the programs that we have for Cumberland County. Save this money, it can go right back in to the services we provide our residents every day.

Well, Kirk, you had, when you first, when you came before the planning commission and you stated, one of the things that you stated was... That this would be a tax relief for the residents. So how much of a tax relief, and how is this going to be doled out? Is it by a dollar amount? And is the tax relief specific to Middlesex Township? Because the property is in our township. Or will it be amortized across 33 townships and boroughs? Will they all reap these benefits of these tax reliefs that you spoke to?

Yeah. So Robin, when we talk about tax relief, this isn't a tax relief you see on homeowners checks or relief that it's got taken off a tax bill. This is a savings to Cumberland County that enables us then to provide more services. Our budget is tight. Your budget's tight. At the township. Any time we see a project that can save $19 million, those $19 million are direly needed by Cumberland County for all the services that we provide. So it's not gonna be direct tax relief back to our residents. $19 million spread over, you know, all of our residents in the county isn't gonna be very much.

But when you look at $19 million in a county general fund budget and what that can mean to our programs and services, it's substantial.

Is this 19 million per year or over the... Per the... How long is this solar array gonna be there?

It's supposed to be 40 years. That's a 40-year estimated number.

19 million over 40 years.

40 years. That's right.

40. And then when you look at the estimation on the savings to us on the conservative side, we're estimating utility rate increases of 2% per year. If you look at your utility bills, this 2% per year, is it likely to happen? Is it likely to exceed? Probably so.

I personally think that we can look at the new zoning ordinance and how it was written and what might be problems with it or forgotten or whatever, but I think we strictly ought to look at this on its own merits. It's...

It was quiet wasn't it?

Quiet. Quiet. I miss them, by the way. I never saw you clap before. I think we need to look at this on its own merits. Is it something that the county should have and that we should have in our township? And is the land proper for that use? It's a question of soil.

Yeah. I have another concern that's identified in the application under the public utilities. You're kind of inferring that the township's well number two is tied to this solar application. Is that the way you choose to state that?

Kelley, could you read that for me, please?

Yeah. Let's see.

"Low intensity land uses such as PSES help to sustainably conserve water resources for long-term use by township residents. PSES have limited impervious cover that supports recharge of groundwater resources, including the Middlesex Townsh... the Middlesex Township Authority's well site number two that is located on the county's property and will provide township residents with clean drinking water."

Sure. So when you look at the site, what we can develop at, if you look at all the uses in the institutional district, we can develop uses that have a lot more impervious coverage than our solar array. Solar array, the impervious coverage, the water management, it's gonna be left to go back and drain the soil, which immediately feeds that well, which is almost on the same property. The two are not linked, it's just... it's just a basic fact that when you have a solar array, you're gonna see a lot more infiltration of the rainwater than you would with another impervious use, and especially with that well being that close proximity to where we're at.

And that well is very productive as well.

Thank you.

Did you say this was a 40-year lease?

40-year, correct.

Our contract with the county is for 30 years, but the actual, like, say, expectancy would be 40 years. So the actual equipment should have a 40-year useful life.

Okay.

What's the difference in your equipment versus the solar panels being used? We looked at, for the novel properties, and they said theirs was a 20-year life. What makes yours superior to theirs?

I'm not familiar with the equipment on that one, but... So most of the solar panels, they're kind of rated on a scale that's called tier one status. It's actually done by Bloomberg Finance, up in New York. But the actual warranties of the solar panels are for 30 years, and at the end of 30 years, we're still expecting to produce about 82% of the original output. So we use the best of the best. I would think that they probably are on that premise as well. I don't know if that's a lease term that they may be referencing as 20 or 30.

Yeah, they're on a 20-year lease, right, with the... Yeah. So that's common, at least, is gonna be anywhere from 20 to 30, but there usually is still value after the lease term.

What is the country of origin of these solar panels?

Actually, a lot of them are being made in the United States, so a lot of the factories now are starting to come in Florida and Texas. That's likely where they're gonna be sourced out of.

That's not what the other fella said. Remember, he said that there was no US manufacturers of panels, and that theirs were coming from Vietnam.

Right. My other observation to you that I think you're aggressively pushing the limits of most things that you're representing. Not the least of which is the financial yield on a seventeen-acre plot. I'm quite familiar with these, and this is one of the most extraordinary returns, so I really doubt. I'm skeptical, very skeptical. Also, as well as the life, you're talking forty years, the first I've ever heard that. All the other representations and all the other offers that get made et cetera, so a little skeptical as well as now it's a fire drill, and it's been out there for three years. Now all of a sudden it's a immediate rush job.

So I just, you know, I'm not aligned with how all of a sudden it has to happen. But again, I do think the location is a reasonable location other than the utilization of quality farmland. This board hears a lot of noise about our crappy farmland, which I don't accept. I don't agree. It's used in many areas where it is poor. Here we have prime land, so obviously we don't value it if that's how we're gonna use it.

Keep in mind too, Jim, that that land's going to the county.

We're leasing it to a farmer.

A lot of that land has already been disturbed with the road that we have in there. Long-term, the county has no intentions of preserving that land or keeping it in agriculture. If it's not this project, at some point in the future it'll be something developed. And we're not targeting that property for farmland preservation in any way, shape, or form.

Yeah. No, it is uninstitutional.

Correct.

And if I can, I'm Doug Nayak. I'm with Greenworks Development. I'm the Solar Renewable Energy's partner, and we're both working with the county on this. The reason why we do financial forecasts over a forty-year period on the panels is that solar panels, because there are no moving parts to them, it's all solid state, they degrade by half a percent a year, and that's on a linear basis. You know, forever they'll degrade to half a percent every year. It's not like an automobile where you go out, you know, ten years or less, and all of a sudden things start to wear out and it drops off.

So if you multiply a half a percent degradation per year by forty years, conservatively that's a twenty percent degradation over forty years, a half a percent times forty years. And at eighty percent, the reason why we do our financial forecasts over forty years is that electricity costs likely in forty years are gonna be twenty-five, thirty, thirty-five cents a kilowatt hour. The array that Cumberland County is gonna own at that time is actually gonna be worth more every year at eighty percent of its initial production times, let's say, twenty-five or three cents a kilowatt hour than it's gonna be initially at a hundred percent output at twelve, thirteen cents a kilowatt hour.

So it's that half a percent degradation every year that doesn't stop. There's no cliff that it falls off of, that's the reason why we forecast over forty years. Panels have been out since nineteen fifty-four, so there's a lot of lifetime use data on panels, and there are arrays that are out there fifty years and longer that are still producing really meaningful amounts of energy because of that half a percent degradation every year.

Doug, how many projects has Greenworks done with SRE across the state? Could you go through what that would look like?

We've done hundreds of projects totaling six hundred million dollars worth of solar assets over sixteen years now. And we have not had a project underperform. You know, our models are solid. We try to stay conservative about everything that we do. And we've given the county tons of references, from school districts, from other municipalities, from businesses. And so we've tried to be as open booking, as transparent about everything that we've done as possible on the project. And what Kirk mentioned a little while ago, that the nineteen million is the forecasted savings over forty years at a two percent electricity cost increase every year for those forty years.

Electricity's very likely gonna go up more than two percent a year, which is gonna make that array more valuable every year for the county and for all the taxpayers in the county, because of electricity cost inflation. You know, the data center problem that we've got right now is gonna run us into a real supply problem of electricity, and one of the things that's gonna happen is it's gonna make electricity a lot more expensive even over the next couple of years. That electricity inflation, which has been happening, but it's gonna start happening, I think, more markedly, is gonna make the array more valuable over time and more valuable to every taxpayer in the county over time.

And the other thing I wanna mention is that the twenty twenty-two or the big beautiful bill is the bill that pulled the deadlines for completing solar projects back fairly significantly, and that's the reason why Kirk mentioned that unfortunately we don't have another year to wait before we can start the project because we've gotta get the project approved by the utility and by the township, approved and get it built and get it commissioned by a certain deadline in order to get the tax credits, which are one of the key things that make the project valuable for the county.

So your year one results or your one savings is a little over three hundred thousand. Is that fair?

That sounds right. That's right. That's right.

Yeah. We've done... I've got a spreadsheet that I think we sent the county when we were bidding on the project that shows thirty or thirty-five projects that we've done over the last five years or so, and we've tracked our forecasted savings against actual, or our forecasted generation against actual generation, and we come up to in the 93 to 105% of forecasted versus actual generation range, because of the design software we use.

Mark, I have a technical question.

So on page 104 of the map zone districts, that's the 3.02.1?

Yes.

You know, I see across the top there was an industrial district. But what about the P-S-E-S line item? I see that...

It's under... It's down towards the end, towards the bottom of the chart. Kelley, if you wanna give me that copy you have there, I don't have a copy in front of me. Go all the way down almost to accessory use.

Oh, I see it right now.

Do you?

Yeah, I see it. Okay. I'll get back.

They're allowed in the industrial and the C-1 districts.

Yeah, because one of the big changes, you know, through the planning commission, just as a reminder, was that the PS...

PS...

...PS was removed from a number of areas as well. I'm sure you're aware.

Could you use the speaker, please? We can't hear back here.

Yeah, I can't hear you very well. I'm sorry.

I made the comment through the planning commission discussion that the PSES was removed from many areas of the zoning, just for their awareness. Mm-hmm. So plans that might have been submitted are no longer permissible. So you might wanna familiarize yourself with what they are. But in ag, they're more ag, in other areas, even where there's lesser soils, it's not permitted.

For solar panels. Correct. Yes. As a principal use. Now, accessory use still allow it. But if you want to put them to run your farm. Yes. But not for commercial. Yes. There was an outcry, and the board decided to remove them from the ag and the R1, I believe. And they were priorly allowed in the institutional and the C2 legible.

But I stated this is an institutional. Right.

Well, judging by whatever we decide, there's already a scheduled hearing with the... Oops, what am I doing with that? Closing. Yeah, board of supervisors on October seventh.

Could you use the microphone, please?

I'm sorry, I can't hear you. Yeah.

There's a public hearing scheduled for October seventh on this matter for the two orders to be changed.

Mm-hmm.

So this is a very simple matter. It would be taking the chart 3.02 table and adding as conditional use in the institutional district, principal solar energy systems, P-S-E-S. Based on the way the meetings have been going with data center plans, and they'll be coming to future meetings, the next meeting on the fourteenth of September, we'll have data center plans on it. Unless you guys don't understand the request, it might be wise to take action and get it off of your plate. But you don't have to do that. You're not required till October seventh.

You have plenty of time to consider it. We understand.

Okay.

Mr...

Mayor? I'm not sure that there was any other information we're going to get by waiting until the last meeting prior to this, except it might give us more time to think about it. But I don't think we're going to get any more information. I believe we understand it. We understand what they wanna do, what the land use now. Mm-hmm. And I think we understand the parameters of electrical use, electrical use increase, consumption, et cetera. So I don't see any reason to delay the decision, although some members of you might.

I have a comment.

You have a comment?

I have a question. So if you change this for... does this change for the whole INS district then? Like, that it would be allowed in anybody's property that is within that then? Is that how that works?

Could you give your name?

Ashley Asper.

Thank you.

Yes.

Yes? Okay. As a resident, I don't think that's a great idea. I mean, it's not like... It's affecting a lot more than just one piece of property, and I just think that we've already done our zoning, and I feel like, as Robin said, the county was involved in this for this whole entire process. It doesn't seem right to then turn around and just change that for a whole district. I just don't think that's a great idea. And I do have a question for you. How large are these gonna be? Like, how tall and how many are there gonna be?

One panel is seven foot by three and a half foot.

Okay.

Quantity, let's see, eight thousand four hundred or so, approximately.

Okay.

Just for clarity, if this was allowed in institutional, this is not allowed anyplace else, correct, Mark?

No. It is not.

No, it's... Only institu... And it would be for all institutional?

Principal solar energy systems, these are not accessory. Accessory solar energy is meant to just generate part of the electric needed on the use, whether it's residential or commercial. Principal solar energy system generates more than is used on the site, and they're currently allowed in the industrial district and the commercial highway, the C-1 district. So this would allow that in the institutional district by conditional use, which would require approval of the board of supervisors at a conditional use hearing prior to land development plan submittal. Okay.

Al Robey Earl Beam, Country Club Road. Kind of question for the gentleman here. I'm not stupid in solar panels. I have solar panels on one of my farms. We heat our water. Back then they said twenty years. They didn't even last ten years. I'm partnering with over a hundred acres in New York of solar panels. I invested in. And Mark, we were told twenty years. So I'm curious how you get forty years out of yours. Plus, I've probably had ten people come to my house, I'm just curious of this stuff, giving me estimates to put them on my house. None of them told me over twenty years.

So I'm just curious how you come up with forty years. Thank you.

Phil Neiderer, Supervisor. I just wanted to clear up something that Mr.... said that was inaccurate because I made the motion. It's in the minutes of the Board of Supervisors from February twenty-seventh, twenty twenty-six. And it states that no further amendments to the zoning map, zoning ordinance, that would permit or expand data center uses within the township until the township has completed and formally adopted an updated comprehensive plan. So the motion was not to allow... was not to not allow any amendments to zoning map or zoning ordinances. It was strictly for data center usage. So I just wanted to clear up what I think was a misconception.

What was the date of that meeting, Phil?

February twenty-seventh, and it's reflected in the board of supervisors minutes. And I think, you know, there was maybe some misconception at the time. Maybe I didn't word it well. I know Mark Carpenter thought the same thing that you thought, that I was, you know, recommending we don't allow any zoning changes whatsoever. But it was specifically, and I think it's worded clearly enough in the minutes, that it was strictly targeting data centers, essentially putting a moratorium in the township on further data center development until we had a new comprehensive plan.

Well, as much as the minutes have been criticized, I think they would stand as the record, right?

So I would agree with you. Okay. You know, whatever's in the minutes, that's...

That's what it is. Okay.

Just wanted to clear that up. Thank you.

I appreciate that.

It's okay.

Hello again. John Manta, Wolf Ridge Road. Needless to say, your estimates of what solar panels are capable of is inaccurate. But more specifically, how about if we talk about at the twenty-year mark, they'll be down to eighty percent efficiency. How about if we talk about the lithium batteries losing their potency after less than, a lot less than that, significantly less than that, like ten years I believe it is. And the inverters that go along with those solar panels only have a ten-year lifespan. So although your panels may be rated for twenty, thirty, forty, sixty years, everything else is not.

And to make an assertion or to lead us to believe that it's a forty-year deal for everything is not true. So please choose your words carefully, or at least do research and find out. And that comes right from Department of Energy. It's not my words. It's Department of Energy. I didn't make it up. The other questions I had was, I don't know if it's too early to ask yet for environmental impact study, how this is gonna affect the rest of the stuff that's going on in that area, little critters that run around and animals that feed on the ground down there and forest, birds and wildlife and deer and all the other stuff. I'm not hearing, and maybe it's too early to hear it.

That would be in... during the land development process.

Maybe it's too early to hear it. And I'm truly sorry that we corporately did not say slow down on everything until we get the comprehensive plan review. And I'll bring it up at the next supervisors meeting because I think that most of the people who were here that night were of the opinion or of the assumption that when you said stop until the comprehensive plan is reviewed, most of us took it as stop, not just specific to the data center. But if it's only specific to the data center, then maybe the next time we get together at a supervisors' meeting, y'all should vote on exactly what it...

And I know what you just said, so I heard you, February, whatever it was, the date of the minutes. But like I said, a lot of folks, me included, took that to believe that we were gonna slow down, or bring to at least a temporary halt this kind of building in our township. More specifically, the little bit of money and the little bit of tax revenue that we will glean from it have to be spread out over the entire county. You know, I'm just curious of how that's gonna benefit us and, the more times I keep hearing that the data centers are gonna give us tax revenue and you guys are gonna...

And every other solar high panel and every other solar farm that wants to be built. Before you know it, they'll be paying us to live in Middlesex Township like they do in Alaska when they glean royalties from the oil wells. So, and I'm pretty sure that's never gonna happen. But my biggest concern are based on the Department of Energy studies, how do you address disposal of those solar panels? How do you account for those solar panels? What happen when they leak into the ground? 'Cause they will fail. It's just a fact of life, and you guys gotta get used to it.

They will fail. Something will happen. A stone could fall, whatever, it could happen, and that well being as close to that property line as it is, you're gonna just contaminate the entire well for all of us that whose never, was never not on a well themselves and possibly into the aquifer to pollute the rest of the wells in the county or in the township specifically. And why does it have to be... Why is it so important? What's the driving force? What's the linchpin date that you have to have this in by? Is there something? What's pushing it?

Are you guys afraid that Shapiro's not gonna get reelected, and all this is gonna go away? I'm not sure, but in all fairness to us as residents in this township, I'm not seeing a whole lot of benefit for us. And after all, it is A-1 land, and, you know, you can read that overlay any way you want to, but it's still A-1 farm land. Thank you.

Josh Asper.... So not necessarily totally against it, but definitely I don't fully agree with some of what was said. But, as far as the conversation, would it not be, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, would it not be better to discuss changing this one piece of property, the zoning for that property, to commercial rather than changing the whole zoning district, period? Is that a possibility to discuss that rather?

Josh, we're acting on an application from the county. This is...

Right. And I'm just...

This is what they've applied for.

Right. But is... I'm just making a suggestion. Okay. So I don't know if that's something that's a possibility better to go that way. We're not opening a bigger doorway to whatever, right? It's localizing it to just that one piece of property. So that's just my thoughts. So...

Mark, in reference to his point, how many acres of institutional land do we have in the township?

The zoning map's right here.

Well, just give me a rough estimate.

I could not estimate off the top of my head. It's the blue land on the map there. I was looking at it myself. Blue? Including the township park, including the sewer treatment plant. I don't know. If you said 500 acres, that'd be right. I don't know. I don't have an estimate.

I think it's a little more. A little more. I think it's close to 1,000. Sure. So except for the Army Heritage Farm, doesn't look like we have a whole lot of just Army Heritage...

They're not proposing to rezone the land. They're just asking for...

Yeah.

...it to be allowed.

So while that's being reviewed, no disrespect intended, I pulled up the minutes from February 27th of '26, and I'll read right from the minutes.

"On the motion of Vice Chairman Neider Neiderer, seconded by Supervisor Goodhart, it was unanimously agreed to not allow any further amendments to the zoning map and the zoning ordinance."

Understanding grammar and English

"Until the township has completed and formally adopted an updated comprehensive plan addressing the future of the township to include data center land use, infrastructure impacts, as well as community impacts."

Now, what I didn't read was it says

"It was unanimously agreed to not allow any further amendments to the zoning map and zoning ordinance or establish overlay districts that would permit or expand data centers."

So when I read this, it's very clear... That is seen not specific to data centers, and it is what it is.

Thank you. So I'm not trying to be a troublemaker, I'm just reading the minutes, and it is...

Would you read that again? I thought it's...

Sure, I'll read it. It's consistent with my recall and others' recall. It's in the section, Discussion and Possible Motion on Future Zoning Ordinance Amendments. And there's some precursor, but then it gets on to

"On the motion of Vice Chairman Nieder Neiderer, seconded by Supervisor Goodhart, it was unanimously agreed to not allow any further amendments to the zoning map and zoning ordinance, or establish overlay districts that would permit or expand data center uses within the township, until the township has completed and formally adopted an updated comprehensive plan addressing the future of the township to include data center land use, common infrastructure impacts, as well as community impacts."

Is this an amendment to the...

It's a policy. It's a policy of the Board of Supervisors policy. Here's a small version, same map. The blue areas are the institutional.

Mark, why is the golf course deemed institutional?

That was the district that we chose to put it in. Prior to this, it was open space conservation. We felt institutional fit, and those types of uses are allowed in the institutional district, public golf course, recreation facilities.

Yeah, if anyone wanted to refer to those minutes, there's much public comment that included myself, Robin Epley Robynn Eppley, John Manta, even Mr. Brenneman explained the comprehensive plan, and Pam Warner Pam Wenner, Mr. Brenneman again, so... That's all public record on the website.

And this little triangle between 81 and the turnpike off of South Middlesex, that's also institutional, is that right?

Yes, it is, the intersection of I-81, South Middlesex Road, and PA Turnpike. It's a triangular piece of land, about 30 acres. We weren't sure how to zone it, had discussions about it. It was industrial under the prior ordinance. It's now institutional.

And the golf course is institutional?

Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. Township parks.

What do you mean? You're saying...

That's the township building you're pointing at.

Well, that one there.

Yeah. That is a...

School.

Oh. That's... Oh, okay. The township building. Yeah, we tried to put all community-type facilities into an institutional district. The county helped us to create this years ago, and we thought that bringing public parks, sewer treatment plants, land that, the golf course, land that would be used for institutional-type uses into the institutional district. That's the reason it is like that.

If you wanted my opinion about allowing principal solar energy systems, I think we're shortsighted not to use as much solar energy as we can. I think solar energy can be developed without many significant impacts to the environment. I think the responsible owner will monitor the panels.

They can even see each individual panel to see what it's putting out, and if there's a problem, they're gonna do repair maintenance on that panel. I think there are ways to recycle and reuse the materials from a panel. I don't think they're proposing to use any lithium iron batteries on this installation. I think they are using inverters. Inverters do have a shorter lifetime. I think that the developer is aware of that. The panels have a longer lifetime, up to 30 years. Inverters, maybe 10 years, maybe 15, maybe seven. We're not talking about a specific project. We're so focused on talking about 17 acre PSES.

This is, are we gonna allow PSES in the institutional district by conditional use? I think we, in our discussions we've had...

I don't hear anybody objecting to having a solar farm in that area. It's perfect location, 'cause who wants to build up against the interstate anyhow? Where it sounds like we're hung up is doing something we said we weren't going to do, and that was rezone, change the zoning, before the comprehensive plan was done.

I would counter it this way. We have a supervisor sitting here. He stated his intent was to limit data center changes to the zoning ordinance. That's not what he said. I thought it was different. That's not what he said. I thought it was different. Also, regardless, it's up to the board supervisors. It's a policy. It's not for the planning commission. If you wanna recommend against it and say you said you weren't gonna have any changes to zoning ordinance, that's fine. But we can't debate and decide. Supervisors, they made a policy statement. They can change that if they'd like or not. If they felt the intention was in relation to data centers, then I think that was the intention.

Whether it's written very well in the minutes, I would agree with Jim Geara, it's not well-written.

Well, that's the right... Okay.

I think they need to make up their minds, not let you tell them how to make up their mind. And you all review the minutes. Mm-hmm.

That's kind of... Well, one of my concerns is it allows it in all institutional land. Yes. Right. Can you speak in the microphone, please? Rather than allowing the institutional land...

Microphone. I'm sorry. You were saying.

Thank you.

If we agree to this, we're allowing it in all institutional zoned land.

It would be limited by less than twenty acres, Tracy.

Yes, but it's twenty acres here, twenty acres there. We all... There's been rumors of the country club being sold, and yes, it was just sold, and they're doing improvements to it. But if the new owner decides it isn't feasible, we could be looking at solar panels there. As one resident suggested, maybe we ought to rezone it, that twenty acres, to something that allows solar panels rather than all the institutional. I'm just airing my thoughts. We're all here on the panel. So... And it is Class One land, but where it's located, it's not gonna stay farmland. Something else is gonna come along. But it's interesting that we're not about...

I mean, two years ago, I looked at putting solar panels on my farm, but then PPL come in and wanted more right away, and we stopped. So now you just told me tonight that I can no longer put a twenty-acre solar panel array on my farm, correct?

That's correct. You can put an accessory solar energy facility...

Only for my own use.

...not a principal. Yes.

You're limited... I wouldn't be allowed to... I mean, the Lancaster Farmer is full of ads, or they wanna do commercial for these arrays on farmland, and especially on pasture land where they put them higher, and you can pasture underneath them. But now you're saying that is not allowable in Middlesex Township.

That's... Yes, Tracy, I thought you were aware when we voted on the zoning ordinance. That was removed before we voted on the zoning ordinance.

I wasn't aware of that.

But we talked about it and discussed it before we acted on it. I even talked with the county about removing it from the institutional also before it was done.

So...

That is Middlesex.

...so what it's looking like is the government is allowed to have twenty acres solar arrays, but an individual landowner can't.

Tracy, this is a decision that was made. The public seems to not want them. They have some fear of solar arrays. And I would say that they're opposed to them. We had allowed them in the agricultural district, in the new zoning ordinance, and in the R1, and in the institutional district, and in the C2. They were removed from all the districts except for the industrial and the C1, 'cause the board of supervisors heard what the public was saying. I think we're short-sighted. I would say it again. This gentleman's talking about how the price of electric is going up and gonna go up.

I issue probably five permits a month for accessory solar energy systems. People are smart about investing money in solar to reduce their electric bills. I was at a house of... today. The bill went from two hundred and fifty to twelve dollars, or fifteen, I think she said. They spent sixty thousand.

Yeah, but there's an old saying, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. So what I said is, the county's allowed to put in a twenty-acre solar array for the benefit of everybody, and if I want to put in a twenty-acre solar array, that... You just said we need to produce... we should be producing more solar energy. My opinion. But that's been taken away from the individual landowner, whether it's me or Jim Gere or anybody else that has twenty acres that they would love to put...

And I greatly respect that you're having this discussion, but we're really focused just on one zoning request from the county. And the planning commission can decide how to recommend in favor or opposed. You can wait and do this at a future meeting.

In answer to the lithium battery question, the lithium ion battery is the preferred backup for homes and for commercial use, so they're gonna use lithium batteries.

Well, let's ask the applicant. There's no batteries on this project.

There are what?

There's no batteries. No batteries.

That's correct. Nothing. I appreciate everyone's concern for, you know, the investment we're making as a county, and that, you know, is it a four year? Is it thirty year? Folks are offering their opinions on how long the solar panels will last. There's other projects in the county that similar products have been made. Keep in mind, that risk is borne solely by the county and our partner. It's not borne by anyone else. So we move forward with that. Those are risks that we're bearing and assuming as part of this. We're also partnering with the largest solar developer in Pennsylvania.

I tend to trust their knowledge and experience on this issue rather than others. And that's as we move that ahead, that's what we have to do, know and trust, and trust these guys, the performance that they have on other projects, the performance they give us will work. When we get to the end of the lifespan of those solar panels too, Matt, you're probably aware there's recent legislation passed where decommissioning has now been moved away from municipalities and being taken care of, to the state. So at the end of this, you know, it's not gonna be the township's responsibility to take solar panels and get rid of it.

It's our responsibility. So as we look at this use, we're taking care of those things, and we appreciate that residents are concerned about that. At the end of the day, that's gonna be our responsibility that we assume and we willingly and knowingly take in this project.

So is there a bond

that'll be set aside for the decommissioning

of these panels at the end?

Again, there's recent legislation passed at the state on decommissioning, moving that from the municipal level up to the state level. A lot of that trace will have to work and figure out the details on it. Just recently passed, so still kind of new to us as well.

Actually, we got motion again. Phil don't like it. I know he don't. Good cop, bad cop.

I think, in my mind, we still have a question about the motion that Phil talked about and what he read. It seemed to me like it was a... It's a matter of interpretation, and I don't know...

Larry, could I give a...

Yeah.

The Board of Supervisors received this application from Cumberland County, and they sent it to you guys. Yeah. They're gonna have a public hearing on it, whether you give input or recommendation or not. Whatever their policy is doesn't really matter for the discussion. It's, are you opposed or in favor of this application? That's the only question. I mean, it's okay to discuss, but it's the policy of the board. They've already broken it, if that's their... you know. And Phil has stated that he didn't believe that was his intention, whether it was worded properly or not. So I don't...

It doesn't matter. So it's a policy...

It does matter.

It matters to everybody.

Well, we were at the...

Don't say it doesn't matter.

But we were at the meeting, and that's how we all interpreted that statement, was that we were taking kind of like a pause until we...

It doesn't matter because the Board of Supervisors received the application and set it for a public hearing and asked the planning commission to make a recommendation. So we don't have to second guess whether they're breaking their own policy or not. That's up to the board.

Is the speaker...

Jim, could you please read that one more time?

No, I read it enough. I regret it. I mean, it's out there.

Disappointed, I'm sorry. Very disappointed.

Well, from a planning commission standpoint, a much smaller issue than the data center overlay. When I built this commission back in the day, approved that and I heard the same words, "It doesn't matter. It's not approved." Well, I think those words are no longer true, and this does not deal with it. I mean, it doesn't mean it won't happen. But, you know, if our job is to plan and look out, I think this is exactly what it's for. So I'm struggling.

And we have some ambiguity between what the intention was and what the words were. So in my mind, we don't have a yes vote to go on. We can't make that decision. We're not authorized. I think, Larry, you're trying to allude to, you're very stern about what our role is.

Yes. And that is what?

I'm very stern on...

What again? What our role is and our task. What's our role here as far as the commission?

Our role is to interpret the ordinance, and it sounds like there is no ordinance here, only a policy, and to make a recommendation according to that ordinance. And that's where I'm confused. I hear policy and I hear ordinance, and is there an ordinance or isn't there?

Well, there is an ordinance. There's no ordinance with a moratorium on the changes to the zoning ordinance. Is that what you're saying? No. Well, that's what Larry... What are you talking about, Larry? Well, I'm just asking. It's a policy of the Board of Supervisors. They set a policy statement. Phil, it's a policy, right? I mean, they didn't adopt an ordinance. So that means they can violate it or not violate it.

They've asked you to recommend on an amendment to the zoning ordinance that's proposed by the county.

Yes.

I agree with it. We can either recommend yes or we can recommend no. Yeah. So I will entertain a motion from the board to either approve, you can make a motion to approve, or we make a motion...

To recommend or not to recommend.

Huh?

To recommend or not recommend.

Right. So we can make a recommendation to approve it, or we can make a recommendation to disapprove it.

If you make a recommendation to deny, you should state your reasons.

Have we ever had no recommendation? Just leave it to the Board of Supervisors.

If you do that, I think they could still go forward with their public hearing.

Right.

And as I understand...

Well, that's where I'm at. It's gonna go to a public hearing anyhow, so... Wouldn't it still? Right, regardless of how we rule. But if we... So that's, I understand Wes's question. If we don't rule, does it just... Like with the supervisors, if they have so much time to act, they either vote yes and it passes, they vote no, it doesn't, or they don't vote, and then when the time expires, it automatically passes.

The one thought would be if you take no action, to me, that looks like you're not in favor and you're not opposed. So I would, before you do that, I would make some motions and see if you can come to a consensus.

Yeah, that's right. We do have three choices.

Yeah.

And we can do nothing, which I... And we can vote yes or no and make a recommendation. If we vote no, I think we should make the recommendation. Or, yes. What's wrong with it and why.

I have one more question for you, Larry, then.

Is there a process that we can make a

recommendation that this is only for this spot and not all the institutional?

Well, you make that recommendation.

I don't know if we have teeth on it. No, if you're not... There would be a process if they approve to allow it in the institutional zoned areas...

Then that would be all institutional.

...it's all institutional zone. Correct. So if we wanna, I guess we could make a motion to deny that and recommend that they rezone that spot to... Platter zone, that's what I would guess. Yes. And that's... Is it... Where I'm... The surrounding zoning on each side is commercial, isn't it? So they can say...

No. The map's right there, if you pass that over to Wes. There's an I, C1 next to it. It's institutional.

C1 is close.

It's down on the turnpike.

Yeah. There's C1 to the north just across 81 on the map.

Okay. So that's residential, though. Is that true? Okay. So you can disappear.

But there's... I'm sorry, there's C1 here. So it would have to be here at the chat because this spot right here.

So you could recommend in favor or opposed to this, and then suggest that the consideration be given to rezoning the property instead. But seems like spot zoning to me. We'll find out. Don't they understand that? Just get half an hour to router. No, it's illegal.

Well, you've got spot zoning on there. That little triangle between 81 and the turnpike...

Did you see that word?

That's 30 acres, and it's in an institution. Long term. I understand that. Yeah. And agricultural and heavy industrial. Right.

Well, spot rezoning is not easy. Okay, so. What's the definition of spot zoning? Awesome.

We could get you one, Larry. Is there one?

If you need it right now.

Yeah.

I'm just wondering if we're even...

There's one that's right here.

Yeah. Okay. No, I don't need it.

What is your name? Is it Jennifer?

Joyce.

Do you have any input?

No.

Anything else to say about your application?

No, I don't have anything additional to add. I mean, I think maybe the possibility of rezoning might be a solution if the concern is if any other institutional properties might be affected. However, it does seem the institutional zone is where the public facilities are being located in the municipality.

But there's a big difference between a park and a solar panel array.

Sure. But it's also where your sewage...

And a golf course.

...it's also where your sewage treatment plant, your wells, and other things like that, other public utilities are...

Yes, I agree.

...also being housed. So...

The UGI LNG tank is in institutional also.

Yeah.

Do you wanna make a motion to deny, to deny or a motion to approve, or deny and recommend rezoning that to commercial? Yes. Yeah, do that. Well, I'm happy. But it is up to him to determine whether that is spot zoning or not. That would go before the

zoning hearing board, right?

No, the solicitor typically advises us. Okay, but I... Well, it's not what we're considering. Rezoning is not what they're asking. We're asking to allow it as conditional use. Conditional use still has specific standards and criteria they have to meet. So it's not a blank check to put in solar array fields all over the institutional district. It still has to be reviewed to see if it's appropriate by the board of supervisors at public hearings.

That means it's not by right. The supervisors can decide without any reason they can deny, correct?

I think they'd need a reason. Well, okay.

Wes, were you on the board when the solar panel array came up for the Deitch farm? Mm-hmm. So you remember we recommended no on that. Mm-hmm. Supervisors approved it. Mm-hmm. So now it's tied up in court, right?

Oh, yeah.

It's still in court?

I don't know.

As far as I know, I haven't heard anything about it.

It's still with the judge.

I guess. So... There's consistency there.

Anything. Recommend yes, we recommend no. How long do we have to take action on this?

Till October.

Sorry, I have to go out.

Make some decisions.

Oh, we have to... October 10th. We have to do it by the...

Oh, yeah, it's

September

28th.

September

28th. You guys can, you know, give it some more thought, study the issue, but it is rather simple. Very simple. Or not. Let me get

you that stuff.

Deny more like this in the past.

Right.

Do you wanna...

I make a motion to deny based on, one, the time that was spent on the zoning ordinance...

Can we get her a microphone then for this?

Okay. I make a motion to deny.

No, you have to recommend deny.

Okay. I'm recommending denial for two reasons. One, for the original zoning rewrite ordinance that has been in effect for three years, or two years. Worked on for two. It was worked on for two years, and then approved in the third year. And secondly, based on the minutes, the supervisor's minutes from February 27th, 2026.

It's been moved. I'll second. Is there a second?

I'll second.

It's been moved and seconded, minutes, for denial. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed nay. Nay. Motion passes. All right. Seeing no other items on the agenda... Mark, do you have any other business?

No, none. Don't we, I think we get to table item six?

No, we don't need to table one that didn't show up.

We don't have to table it. They've asked it to be tabled. I think we should. That's fine if he wants it tabled.

I'll entertain a motion to table item TPF 26-14. So moved.

Second.

Second. All in favor to table say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed nay. Nay. Motion passed. Do you have any other business, Mark? No.

All right. I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. I'll make that motion. It's been moved to adjourn. Is there a second? Second. It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All in favor say an aye. Aye. Opposed nay. Nay. Motion passed.

Oh, we got this.