Monday, June 22, 2026

Meeting will come to order. We'll have Sarge lead us in the pledge of allegiance.

(All:) "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

All right. Before we start, does anybody have a comment with anything not on the items on the agenda?

Earl Beam, Country Club Road. Two things I just didn't understand and wanted to ask a question. First of all, I was never at a, on the meetings where, what the planning commission, what the recommendation was to the board of directors on this PAX-1, when we done the overlay.

Sir, can you look towards the microphone, please?

On the overlay, what was the decision by the planning commission that was forwarded to the board of directors, the directors, supervisors? What was the... Did they approve it? What comments did they give to them?

Presiding officer: You mean for the overlay plan for this?

Earl Beam: Yeah. Yes, the PAX-1. I'm just curious.

Presiding officer: Yes. It was voted on to approve the overlay and pass on to the supervisors for their final decision.

Earl Beam: So it was a unanimous decision? There were all ayes, no nays?

Presiding officer: Yes.

Okay, thank you. Now, the second thing is, in our government, we're supposed to have democracy, and normally in a state and federal government, we have the public, some government. In our township, our townships, we have, let's say the planning commission, the supervisors, then we have people who submit things to the, us, whether or not they are gonna be approved, or... Well, sometimes I don't... We are the taxpayers, and you people are supposed to work for us. There's times I feel that they're really not working for us. If you lived on Country Club Road, and you would see what we see every day, how our lives affect our minds, our physical, water, radon, our devaluation of our properties, and it was all due to this township and this overlay.

In the government, usually when the bill is submitted, okay, somebody puts in something else, "Hey, I want something for the township," or, "I want something for the government," or community. Why can't our township submit something for the, with one of the recommendations? They come in here with a plan. Everything is for our township. You know, the millions of dollars, $20 million, whatever... is going to be, the money supposed for farm preservation after the farm was taken, or there's supposed to be money for police services and for our parks and recreations. Supposedly, we get a break on our taxes, $400 a year. I spend that much money a week eating out. What do we on Country Club Road get? We're the sacrificial lambs for you people. Nothing. I cannot see... I don't think anybody back here sees where we are even accounted for. But yet we pay the taxes, and you're supposed to work for us.

Is that not correct?

Yeah, we're appointed to these boards to represent the township, and there have been countless plans and plans and plans coming to us for, over the years, and we vote on them and approve them and send them on to supervisors for them to look at and approve. The three guys that sat up here is the final word in this township. You elected, so you need to talk to them and express your opinion, and that's where it's at.

When you send letters to the township, I got one back today. Literally said, "We're sorry that this ever happened," and if I want any compensation or anything, I have to go to PAX-1 people, the contractors, whoever are down there. I have no computer. I have no idea in the world who I would contact. But I don't know how you people sleep at night for what you've done to us residents.

John Manta, Wolf Bridge Road.

I can answer that.

I came out of my driveway yesterday, and I noticed that there was a truck from New Jersey, and on the side of the truck it said something about an environmental impact study team. Is there something cooking on the west side of Wolf Bridge Road that people need to be aware of now, before it gets grandfathered in like the PAX-1 did, and just get rolled over into another development or another warehouse? Is there, are there any plans for the Walters property on the west side of Wolf Bridge Road that we need to worry about now?

I'm not aware of anything. Mark, how about it?

Walters has been in communication with me about subdividing his property for housing.

John Manta: On the west side of Wolf Bridge Road?

Mr. Carpenter: Yes, the west side. The side where you live.

John Manta: No, east side.

Mr. Carpenter: I think both sides. The whole property, he wants to subdivide it for housing. But I don't know, that's not imminent. Is that where they were looking, John?

John Manta: Yeah.

There's also the 300 lots up on the Frye property that's gonna be developed.

John Manta: These guys were specifically right next to that gas, well, pipeline station.

Mr. Carpenter: It could have to do with the pipeline. Mr. Walters inherited the property from his dad, and he plans to build a house there and subdivide lots.

John Manta: Okay. Thank you.

So, one more second please. So is there gonna be a sign going up there that says, "This is gonna happen," or is being planned, or is it part of the overlay, or what's that... That ground right now, if you could refresh my memory, please, what is it zoned as presently? Look at the map.

It looks like A, agriculture.

Unidentified speaker: So it would have to be rezoned?

Mr. Carpenter: John, I'm not...

Unidentified speaker: I'm asking the question.

Mr. Carpenter: If you could call me and make an appointment. I don't think this is the time to really discuss...

Unidentified speaker: Well, he just said he wanted to discuss things other than the data center, discuss it now, and that's what I'm trying to do.

Mr. Carpenter: I have not received any plans from Mr. Walters. I had discussions with him.

Unidentified speaker: Will there be something posted?

Mr. Carpenter: I'm not sure. It depends what he proposes to do.

Okay. But, again, is there anything in the pipeline right now to change that from agricultural to residential?

Mr. Carpenter: No.

Unidentified speaker: Okay. Thank you.

But Mark, under agriculture, isn't a house allowed?

Mr. Carpenter: Yes.

Presiding officer: So it could be...

Mr. Carpenter: Yes, he could subdivide it.

Limited, because I can't subdivide mine.

Mr. Carpenter: Oh, yes you can.

Unidentified speaker: Oh, yeah, that's not what you told me. He's gonna extend public sewer down to those lots. I don't want it.

Mr. Carpenter: This is Mr. Walters'. He owns the land, not you.

But if he...

Mr. Carpenter: Okay? Thank you, Mark.

Just give me a call. I'll meet with him.

My name is Vazquez. I live in Country Manor West, 25 Oak Highland. I would like to know if you have considering responding to the resident of Country Manor West regarding the damage they are suffering due to the project this commission is recommending. This project is not entirely clear. I received my right-to-know, and I found a lot irregularity, a specific technical questions with Mark Carpenter. This is my one. By the way, the right to know what Mr. Sa-- Sandy is repeat a lot of time. 1,539 page is repeat. It's not clear.

This is a process question, so probably anybody on the board, on the planning committee could answer it.

Presiding officer: What's your name, ma'am?

Arlene Darlington: Oh, Arlene Darlington, Wortzville Road, 7509. Sorry. I just kind of noticed, you know, having been a project manager, having been responsible for agendas, minutes, lead discussions, tracking risks, things of that nature, why does it take six, seven, nine weeks to get meeting minutes approved? Somebody's gotta be able to answer that.

Our regular secretary has been out due to health issues, and at one...

Arlene Darlington: Since... Where is she?

Presiding officer: Like, Eileen has been filling in to take care of the reports.

Since February? February 23rd meeting minutes were approved on April 13th. That was seven weeks. The minutes of April 27th are on tonight's agenda. That's nine weeks ago. The minutes from May 1st are on tonight's agenda. Those were six weeks ago. How can you possibly communicate and work efficiently and inform the residents in a timely manner if you can't even get the minutes out in the same month? Seriously. That's a real big problem, and who's gonna fix it?

That is to be handled by the supervisors. They appoint who is the recording secretary. Zach, do you have any answer?

Yeah. We have actually contracted the minute job of PC meetings now, so it's gonna actually be done by a professional service. They still need to be approved by the board that's sitting here before you, so still the minutes will be completed, they'll be reviewed by the board, and they still need to be approved before they can be published.

Okay. So there's a meeting tonight. Who's recording the discussions?

That's recording right now. Am I on there?

Presiding officer: Yeah.

Arlene Darlington: Okay. And then they go to some professional writer who's gonna generate minutes. And what's the turnover time for that?

But it's still like, that won't be approved until the next meeting.

But what's the turnover time? This contracted person, you've contracted me to get minutes out. My contract says 48 hours, I have to get draft minutes to the board. Is that what the contract says?

They will have them out before the next meeting for the board to...

Arlene Darlington: No, no. No.

That's... If they cancel boards, it's a long time sometimes.

Yeah. I mean, you guys canceled the meetings in June. No, seriously. Who can't generate minutes in 48 hours? If they can't, you've hired the wrong person. I'll do it. I mean, seriously.

This would not be allowed for at all if I was a public company.

Well, to me, the minutes are not published until we review them and approve them. And the earliest that can be is at the next meeting.

I understand that, but the next meeting is typically what, two weeks later?

Yeah. So no minutes can be published in less than two weeks.

But they can be reviewed. Draft minutes can go out to the planning committee or the board of supervisors within 48 hours. That gives you guys about 10 days to review the minutes so that when you come to the meeting, you already have your points, whether you agree or disagree, and they should be approved pretty much on the spot. I'm not kidding you. Six, seven and nine weeks.

Well, I'm with you, but if they were presented to us, in the 22 years I've been here, I don't remember ever a case where we did not approve the minutes the first meeting that came to us.

Okay. Well, that's great. So you're not the bottleneck. The bottleneck apparently is whoever's taking the minutes and getting the draft to you. So again, Zach, what's the turnaround time for this new and improved process to get to the board or the PC?

It'll be hours from the time. But it's not gonna take her two weeks to do that.

Okay. But it'll be done before the next meeting. Okay. All right, cool.

I used to work for the city of Irvine in California, and we would have draft minutes up after the city council within 48 hours, ready for just a review so people would know what actually happened at the meeting.

Okay. Well, that's not what our board has approved. Our board will not post the minutes until they are approved by the board.

So how do you change the process then?

Talk to your board of supervisors.

I am. Friday. How do we change the process?

What we're saying is you have a very important thing that everybody's doing, right? This is important to everybody. You guys are spending countless hours, and so is everybody else, right? So how do we change the process so this very small issue that's growing isn't an issue anymore? If that's where it needs to change, then how is that to change? How fast can it be changed, Zach? Do you know?

We'll discuss it at the board. We will discuss it as a board.

Okay. Thank you. So can we get that documented, and then can we have a answer back when?

We have a board of supervisors meeting on Friday.

Great. 7:30 AM, is that the one? Fabulous. Thank you.

Hi. Jody Shivell, Teaberry Drive, Carlisle, Middlesex Township.

When we do minutes and the people make the comments, can we have the names listed with that? Because sometimes it'll say township official, and then we don't really know, if you weren't there, who said that, and I kind of like to know that sometimes if I want to direct something to them. So that would be one. That's probably simple enough. And I don't know if you brought up recall, but recall is a real thing for people. Recall. Don't look at me like I'm silly. I'm just saying, that is definitely on the conversation list in the community. So it's not anything to be happy about either. We're not happy. And then under blasting, just let me say that my house shakes.

Okay? Now, I understand about all that vibration stuff and the rules they have and the graphs and everything that it shows. But the point is, it could be that the way my house runs, and a few others, that it's strong. I don't mean like I'm just feeling the vibration in the ground. I mean my dishes are rattling. Some days not. You know, some days you just hear the blast and you know it went on, but a lot of times it's stronger than it should be for the area that I'm in, and I don't know about everybody else, but a lot of people are having that same problem, at least on Teaberry and back. And it may be that where it's coming through at the east north end of the 1B. I don't know.

But there are graphs, seismographs. Is that correct? I know you guys are... Yes. Right. All right. So there's... I think I'm between four and five, or three and four, and I'm in, like, the middle, so maybe one needs to be put a little in our direction because it's a lower end, it's less land at that point, and I think it's traveling through stronger.

Yes, because they work with the water pipe.

Well, for whatever reason, I think... You know, I'm going to the blasting meeting tomorrow, so I will ask. That'll be a question I have. So, and that's it for me for now. You're lucky today.

Thanks. Ms. Shivell, just a point of clarification. You are asking to have a seismograph recorded on Teaberry, correct?

Well, there are two, I think, according to this map I saw, but I think one might be more towards Fieldstone and the circle, O Circle, maybe down in the... I don't know if it's on our side of the creek or the other side. I think it's supposed to be on our side, but you can't see them. And then there's another one further up on Teaberry by way, it looks to me, where there isn't one lead property per say. So where we are, we dip, you know? And the trees are more open and the land is set different and I think that may be making the difference or maybe they need to ease up. I know we had one last week that went...

Last week, can we be told what happened with that? I forgot. With the blasting incident. I know they got cited. Can I be told what was said and what was cited?

The DEP can...

He's gonna answer it I think. Oh, sure.

Go ahead. Yeah. So I was at the construction meeting last week and based on my recall, here's what was communicated. They did have a violation last week. They were obviously very disappointed. What they told us was that they had a problem with the stemming of the hole. And, more of a technical term, not enough time to go into it, but there was a stemming problem which caused that. And there's really, from what they expressed, two types of seismic activities. There's the ground seismic and then there's the air concussion seismic, and it caused a very severe air seismic.

And so they had to respond to DEP with their corrective actions. And a couple things that I recall from the meeting and actions that they took was that they were going to cut the size of the blast boom fork by 50%, which is significant.

All the time? I'm sorry.

Yes. All the time. They already started that. And then also there's already one safety individual, I think they're from the blasting organization, and they're gonna add a second safety individual from the developer. And so there's a lot of focus on it, but that's what I understand happened.

And what determines whether they get cited or fined? 'Cause they weren't fined. I mean, is there so many citations and then you get a fine?

I don't recall the fining or any of that, but they definitely did get a violation. And it's treated seriously and they followed DEP guidelines. DEP makes the call. But that did occur.

And do they record the blasts?

Jim (Planning Commission): They do record the blasts. All of them. In fact, they shoot video.

Yeah. That's what I... Do they video them?

Yeah, they video all the blasts. Every blast they have a drone in the air and they video... They actually showed us the video of that particular day.

Okay, thanks.

Well, one more comment on that, and I kinda know a little bit about it too. They were drilling 60 holes and blasting 60 holes at a time when they had that explosion. According to what I was told by the drilling team, they were supposed to cut it back to 30 holes, but about 1:15 today my walls shook, my pictures shook and my windows rattled. So if they cut it back from 60 to 30, there's still something wrong.

What day was that?

I don't have the date on today's blast, but they were supposed to cut it back to 30 holes.

They did assure us that they were cutting in half.

And the people in charge, Fabio, he ignoring the complaint. He been in my home around one month ago and he determining, I don't know what, he used for determining that that blasting don't cause any damage in my mobile home. A lot of residents around my community talking about that because the mobile home is not the same structure like a home. The data center of the people who in charge have understand that mobile homes is different. We close to the project like Meadow and a lot of residents. They weren't close to the creek. We need attention. Let's see how...

We need somebody in charge attending the residents Country Manor West because doesn't matter what the project may have a berming, no berming, violation, whatever, the residents need attention. Fabio is not attending the complaint. He ignore.

Well, there's no obligation of the developer. As was mentioned here this evening, they are holding three invitation only meetings in the different groups of residents around the area. They held one I think a week or two ago, and then they have two this week. So if you got the invitation, I encourage you to go.

I would just like to get a phone call back when we call. It would be nice.

I have a hole split through now in my house because of last Sunday.

Again, the planning commission has nothing to do with it, but I would encourage you to continue to get attention and to call the township and make sure that you're getting addressed.

When I called the township they told me to call the blasting company.

Jim (Planning Commission): Who's they? Who told you...

Unidentified resident: Whoever answers the phone here tells me to call the blasting company.

Yeah, last time Martin told me that...

My recommendation is get their names.

Kyle Gerber, Bernheisel Bridge Road. I had a follow-up question on the blasting. If they reduce power by 50%, what impact does that have on the overall blasting timeline?

Good question. They said that they will still do it within the existing timeframe. They found that some of the soils are less than what they expected, and so they do not expect to extend blasting as a result of that.

So they're confident that they can blast the same amount of soil with 50% power in the same time frame. So they don't need to increase frequency of blasting per day, is what I'm getting at.

Jim (Planning Commission): That's what they told us.

Okay. Thank you. I can add some detail to that. I was at the same meeting. My notes from the meeting...

Name, I'm sorry.

Mike Hess with the... I'm with HRG. We're the engineering consultant for the township. They, I had noted that they would reduce blasting by 25% as a result of AP. So maybe we can get some clarification on the exact amount.

Unidentified speaker: Less holes.

Mike (HRG): Yeah. It was gonna be fewer holes as well, but they would do a single shot per day, I believe was their plan. And that because they encountered softer than expected bedrock on the site, it could still get it done in the same time frame, but fewer blasts.

Yeah. That's very much what I said. The fact that they're not lessening the amount of holes. This gentleman is correct. They're shooting 50% of the quantity. So they're gonna shoot the same holes, you know, or the same... You're not lessening the charge, is what I took away from it. They're just gonna lessen... I don't remember the exact numbers, but he's pretty close. 630. Was he told. So they're just doing less holes.

Okay. Now we'll proceed to plan TPF 25-28, discussion, possible recommendation. We're good. Oh. All right. We have minutes.

All right. First, we'll do the minutes of April 27th.

Make a motion to approve the minutes from April 27th.

I second.

Been moved and seconded to approve the minutes of April 22nd-- 27th. All in favor, aye.

Presiding officer: Opposed, nay. Passed. All right. Now we'll review the minutes from May 11th.

No comments.

I have one comment. Page five, paragraph three. It says that, you know, the proposed fence to be approximately 18 feet high with fabric screening. I think that should have been 18.

Page three?

Unidentified commission member: Page five. Paragraph three.

I make a motion to submit that number one adjustment as amended.

Second. Been moved and seconded to approve the minutes of May 11th. All in favor, aye.

Presiding officer: Opposed, nay. Motion passed.

We will move on to the discussion, possible recommendation, preliminary plan and development plan, Ahold Delhaize Solar Development on Shady Lane.

Good evening, everyone.

Presiding officer: Good evening.

I'm Garrett Warner, again, representing Ahold, or Scale Microgrids, presenting the Ahold Delhaize Solar Development project located on Shady Lane. Last time I was at the meeting, the plans I presented to you, they haven't changed. Bud completed his review as of last Friday. There were no minor comments. He did ask for some clarifying details from me. So the temporary bridge that we are proposing over the existing bridge along Shady Run, spanning the Letort Spring Run, this is the detail that we provided in our...

Unidentified speaker: Where you connect to the TV line.

Mr. Warner: Yeah. Can I actually...

Can I interject something here? My comments found that all of the subdivision and land development requirements have been met. Our ordinance requires an environmental impact assessment. We require one in this case because it's adjacent to the Letort. You should keep in mind, this plan also has received a conditional use approval on May seventh, 2025. So some of that vetting has already been in place by way of the conditional use review by the board of supervisors, and I believe the plan was also before the planning board in May 2025.

The environmental impact report has identified as required. Our ordinance requires, when you do an environmental impact assessment, that you identify impacts and then how you propose the developer to mitigate those. Their proposal on how to mitigate. We have nothing in our ordinance that says that what they are proposing as far as mitigation is good for approval or not. It's their plan. We can provide comments on how they mitigate. We can say, "Well, we disagree. Why don't you do this? Why don't you do that?" But our environmental impact assessment requirements are certain. Basically, a lot of that is very subjective in nature. They've identified a couple of impacts. They identified an impact to the Shady Lane Bridge, both during construction and possibly during occurrence of a fire where rather large fire equipment would have to cross the bridge.

Their proposed mitigation for construction, that's what Garrett is about ready to propose to you, or show you, and ultimately present to the Board of Supervisors, is to construct a temporary bridge over the existing bridge. This has been done other places before. This is not a unique thing. He is, as required by ordinance, showing you how they intend to mitigate. I encourage you to listen to him and how they propose to do it. And then with your action tonight, and if you forward this to the Board of Supervisors, you provide your comments to the board on how you feel about his proposed mitigation.

It really doesn't have anything to do with plan approval, because they meet all the requirements for plan approval. The other impact, as I said, was for fire. And Garrett has been working with Ed Beam, our emergency services director, and I have spoken to Ed Beam as well, on how those impacts can be mitigated. You have copies, I think, in your packet that Mark provided you of Ed's comments about this. And I don't want to speak for Ed, but he feels fires can be fought on that side of the bridge. He explained how, but he also wanted to interject that in the future, he suggests that somewhere along the line, the township get together with the fire companies and the Beatty family, who have the farm on the opposite side of Shady Lane that has a lane through it, off of Claremont Road,..., into this property, into that section of Shady Lane.

Somewhere along the line, the parties get together and work out a future plan for access to that side of the bridge, so the fire company can fight fires that way. Right now, there aren't any formal agreements, easements pertaining to allowing the fire department to use that way. So that's how I would like to present my side of the review. But I will turn the floor over to Garrett to have him explain to you or show you what they are proposing. And I would assume Garrett would also show this to the Board of Supervisors, because ultimately, the supervisors would have to give permission to build a bridge over a public and existing township bridge connecting two sides of an existing township road.

Thank you, Bud. As you mentioned up on the screen, this was a schematic that we drew up, proposing the temporary bridge spanning the existing bridge on Shady Lane. This technique, as Bud mentioned, has been done. I do have some photos. Some of our inspectors in our Ohio office actually inspect one of these exact same bridges that was supposed to be temporarily, but unfortunately got left in place as a permanent bridge. It is the very same scenario. So the plan would be to construct this overnight, coordinate with the residents along Shady Lane. There would be a closure while they construct this.

It would be maybe twelve to twenty-four hours to construct this. The temporary bridge would be placed on steel plates and wooden bearing blocks on stable material on both sides of the bridge, and they would build up gravel ramps at a slope of maximum six percent. This type of temporary stream crossing will require a GP-8 permit with DEP. We've already been in contact with the South Central office to get that permit application started. So this is the plan as far as constructing the temporary bridge. And Bud, you asked about what these might look like. This is the exact brand, this Mustang Extreme H-Bridge installation.

It's a temporary bridge that the civil contractor proposing in this scenario. And, as I mentioned, these are taken from Ohio, and this is that exact same temporary bridge manufacturer. As you can see, it was placed over top of an existing bridge. It left in place as a permanent solution, instead of reconstructing that bridge itself. As Bud also mentioned, we provided a fire prevention and safety plan for the township in case of an emergency. It walks through the step-by-step process, how do we evacuate any residents downwind if there was a fire, and also our proposed plan to access to the site from the neighbor's property if fire equipment would need to access the property.

And as Bud mentioned, he had no comments on our plan, so right now, the plans that you saw last meeting is the exact same plans that we've designed tonight.

Now this bridge is only for the construction phase, right?

Mr. Warner: Correct. It would be a maximum of five to six months. We're hoping for three to four, but more likely timeline probably about five months. And we will move quickly.

That's on a township road?

Mr. Warner: Yes.

Unidentified commission member: Okay.

And we'd have to go through all the proper bonding as well.

Presiding officer: We would seek different... Jarvis is bonding the whole nine yards.

Yes. What's the difference in width between this and the existing bridge?

The temporary bridge would be a single-lane bridge. So it would be about 14 feet wide. And we would have to provide proper traffic mitigation, so they would have to stop on each side of the lane to make sure there wasn't any collision. Also, we would give right of way to all the residents, any residential cars traversing it during construction. So construction would have to wait while the residents traverse the bridge first.

And the weight is suspended on the ground on either side of the bridge. No weight on the bridge.

Mr. Warner: That is correct. I oversized the bridge. The span on the bridge right now is only roughly about 30 feet. I proposed a 50-foot bridge. That would give you about a 10-foot fair lane, similar to the existing bridge.

And has engineering looked at that load angle, how it's dissipated out?

Mr. Warner: It's like a road would tie the same way. The angle would dissipate out on about a 45-degree angle.

Unidentified commission member: Does that get down to the footing of the existing bridge?

That has not been checked, but I can verify that.

And they are... I advised them that prior, as I would the board, prior, if the board should choose to allow this to happen, before that happens, we would have all the engineering designs thoroughly reviewed. There's a lot of engineering detail that we don't want to let...

Unidentified commission member: It all falls on us.

Mr. Grove: That's correct. There's a lot that goes into it. It seems simple on the surface, but there is a lot that goes into that. So, I know the township has... This particular bridge is on the township walls to be inspected.

What is that, every five years? Every other year. Every other year by the county.

Presiding officer: What's the weight...

Mr. Grove: It just so happens that the county structural engineer is HRG. Not this particular person from HRG, but their firm.

What's the weight limit on the township bridge be?

The township bridge is 10 ton single unit, 16 ton combined units. Tractor and trailer, 16 ton. So the 10 ton would be your concrete trucks, those type of things. And Garrett is correct, they would have to have flagger force or some control. Fortunately, that section of that road is not heavily trafficked. As we know, I think...

Unidentified speaker: It's a dead-end road.

Mr. Grove: It's a dead-end road, and there are some families, a couple that live on the other side, but I think, and Mark may be able to chime in, I think some of them come in from that gravel lane off Shammel Lane.

So from a convenience standpoint, there might not be too much impact. That being said, it's still a township road, and it would take the township supervisors' authority to allow them to do that. This is how they propose to mitigate it. If the township does not allow it, they're going to have to come up with another way to mitigate it. But there would be a... Hopefully, I put that in my comments. There would be a very bold restriction placed on the plan. I think there is, to some extent, that no access to that bridge would be allowed by the existing bridge by trucks that do not meet the existing posted speed limit or weight limit. Excuse me.

What's the width of the township bridge that's there now?

Mr. Grove: I believe it is twenty-two or twenty...

Presiding officer: About 23 feet.

Mr. Grove: Yeah. Twenty-two to twenty-four. So it's a two-lane bridge. It's a narrow... It's two lanes.

Will there be enough space? I know a lot of people walk back there all the time. Is there going to be enough room beside the replacement bridge for them to still go out there?

They would probably be safer to traverse the temporary bridge as the gravel apron ramps that we're proposing are going to span to both sides of the existing asphalt. They could walk around it, but...

I didn't know if you'd still want to permit pedestrian traffic. I know a lot of local people walk back there.

I don't think the township now has any... Can't grant any special permission for pedestrian access across the existing bridge. They just use it, like mainly people at lunchtime or whatever, from the giant corporation.

As a point of clarity on the comment around flaggers, this would be 7/24, so in my view, you would need red light service.

Mr. Grove: Yeah.

Unidentified commission member: Okay. Probably, yeah.

You said about a bridge that was put in place temporarily and left. Was that a project of your company and the solar company?

No. My Ohio office conducts bridge inspections, and they were just inspecting the bridge.

I had asked Garrett if we could show something in addition to the sketch, pictorially of what the bridge might look like, and he just happened to show a picture of one that was temporary that actually ended up becoming permanent.

Presiding officer: You say it was in Ohio?

Mr. Grove: It was in Ohio, yes.

Well, that's what I'm just wondering, if there was any chance that between Ahold and the solar panel company, whether for the benefit of the township, they'd want to leave the bridge in place to solve the problem of a bridge that needs replaced.

Well, the bridge does not need replaced. Our bridge right now does not need replaced.

Presiding officer: Oh, at ten ton.

Mr. Grove: Yeah. And other than this one instance, there's no construction. I mean, that 20 acre piece of ground is the last remaining piece. So there would be no requirement for a permanent bridge there.

Do they have garbage service back there? Pardon? Do they have garbage service back there?

Mark, do they?

Unidentified speaker: Yes.

Mr. Grove: How does that garbage truck get through? I'm not sure. Good question. I don't know.

Quickly, John Manta, Wolf Bridge Road. Is that road going back there that's gonna allow them to go over that bridge, is that road suitable to carry the weight of the trucks that are gonna go back there without causing any further damage to the township road? And if so, who's gonna pay for it? And who's gonna pay to fix the bridge abutments after that bridge, if it's taken out, who's gonna pay for that?

The road will be bonded. The existing road will be bonded. We have a typical excessive weight bond that's required for any construction on any township road that is posted. With that, without getting into details, that bond should cover any structural damage to that road. They will have insurance. It'll be covered to the hilt.

But just so I'm clear, once they try to remove that bridge, any damage that was caused by that bridge, after an inspection of the abutments...

It will be inspected for any damage. Naturally, after it's out, it will be inspected for any residual damage to the existing foundation wing walls. That is standard operating procedure.

And you say the bonding of the road. That means that they're gonna fix anything that goes wrong with it? At their cost?

At their cost. At the bonding company.

John Manta: Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Grove: You're welcome.

So it does beg one question. How the construction of the bridge equipment, how does that get on the other side? How is that achieved?

So the bridge will be put in place via crane, or I think this one's small enough they can put it in with actually with an excavator. But they would then traverse the bridge and use on-site. As far as bringing the steel plates and everything across, those will be, should be small enough to traverse the ten ton road.

Thank you. Anything else?

I have nothing else. There are waivers on this plan, I think, Mark. I have one, two, three, four... No, this is the two sides of the house. One, two, three, four waiver requests.

But five, you're eliminating one, correct?

When I read your notes...

So you have the sewage on one...

Mr. Grove: Yeah, sewage line. Correct.

Jim (Planning Commission): So you get three.

Mr. Grove: There were four requests that were eliminated.

Yes. I do have one question from the last meeting. How did your conversation go with the landowner for alternative access?

I'll let Jenny answer that one.

Did you do that, though?

So we... I know they've been in contact with...

Oh, please, you identify yourself, please.

Oh, sorry, yes. My name is Jenny Menkes, and I work at Scale. I'm the project manager for this project. We haven't had direct contact with the landowner yet because we found an alternative solution, which is building a temporary bridge. So if that solution is not feasible after we go to the board of supervisors, then the next step is to engage with the owners.

Well, my comment on the planning commission to the other members could see that, having read that Beam's response, even though he approves it, I find it odd that we would contribute to an inappropriate situation, and that is, you know, further firefighting. It looks a little questionable to me. And, you know, I wish you would have acted on what was requested, but you chose not to. And I don't think we should worsen an existing situation, even if it was done at not the best level in the past. So I have an issue with that.

You're saying that you would prefer that they got the right of way from the lane?

So after construction, we still have firetruck access challenges. It's not really ideal. And the idea of a group of people getting together after, even before it's approved they're reluctant to do it, and I just don't trust that anything will be done. So I don't like the idea of us recommending something to be worsened when we've identified this problem, and it should be remedied.

And essentially, that's sort of where Ed Beam was coming from. We can handle it, but there's a better way to do it.

And the better way is the access route from...

Yeah, that would involve private agreements, easements.

Unidentified speaker: Or a bridge. New bridge.

And the other side of this is, I would suggest that if we're going to take any action to move forward, that that be put in their explanation.

I hear you said it was more of, it's gonna be a recommendation. That is correct. The plan meets all the ordinance requirements. This is an addressing their proposal and a mitigation of environmental impact. They identified the impact, they're prepared to mitigate. The mitigation is acceptable, it may not be the best, but it is acceptable by the fire, by MB, and it may be acceptable to the board of supervisors. The supervisors are the ones that ultimately make that call.

I find that most people are reasonable, and we're talking about a once occurrence to have access, and I think most people find that in an emergency to be acceptable, without even attempting, even if you have to sweeten it a little bit. So a failure to do so shows a lack of dedication. So now I've repeated myself three times.

Tell me about the, still shows up on some of your prints now, but it shows as extinguished. Tell me about the denial of access by companies to the front of the property.

So my firm did not conduct this survey, so I don't have exact information on when that easement was established. We did not perform the ALTA, so I don't have that information. But there was, I believe, some type of residential development at some point proposed back here. That denied access easement was to force residents onto Red Court Road.

Which does not exist.

Correct. And the applicant worked with the property owner to get that easement extinguished.

Unidentified speaker: Careful. He did not.

He was here. He did not. They did not. That's correct. They got it extinguished, but they did not work with the existing property owner. Don't ask me how, it's a legal thing. Our solicitor was emphatic in saying it's the law. They handled it legally, and then Mark advised their solicitor, I think, your lady's solicitor.

Holthuis. They worked with a Holthuis to get it extinguished. Technically it is extinguished, we were told, legally. I was here at the meeting when she was describing it, and he says, "It's legal, but it's not right." That's correct. You know, you should go to the owner, because the owner was here.

That's right.

And he did not know that it had been extinguished. Our attorney had to tell him, because nobody at law had notified him. That is rude right there.

Was this at the supervisors meeting?

Unidentified commission member: Yes.

Ms. Menkes: Yes, yes. You were there.

Unidentified commission member: Yes, I'm here for that at least. So that kind of proves or faith that some of the stuff that's going on here, you know. Are these the same people that own the right of way?

Presiding officer: Yes.

Unidentified commission member: Yeah. Oh, they're fun to deal with now.

Yeah. Good one. That family. Yeah. The same family. So, gentlemen, they've made the presentation. I've rattled my mouth off, so you guys can talk to them.

One other thing, Bud. In Ed Beam's email, he also talks about after the fact here, where he says in the future will be prudent for the developer, township, and owner of the Country Air tunnels and gravel road to discuss a plan for upgrading the emergency access.

The emergency access, there is no official emergency access. The emergency access that he's talking about is this lane that exists, gravel lane, but there is no technically emergency access. It does not exist.

It has a good foot and walk back here, if they wanna go that route. Of course. They wanna give an access to it. But you gotta negotiate with them.

You've gotta negotiate to create the official emergency access. Right now, Mark was telling me, right now that lane is being used for concrete trucks to be, that are delivering concrete to the Beatty that's building a house right next to this site. So...

So then it is accessible by fire truck then.

Well, so far, Mark tells me it's held up. But from what I understand, it's pretty crude.

What's the concrete truck weigh?

Mr. Grove: 80,000.

Unidentified commission member: About 80,000. 40 ton. 80 to 40,000.

Yeah. So, again, you're talking future here. I agree with that wholeheartedly. So right now...

But how do you ensure this future?

We don't. We don't ensure. That's up to the board, and not even the board can... I'm just speaking unofficially, not as a lawyer. I don't think the board can force them to come to an agreement with between the two property owners. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there's some law out there that says, you know, for the sake of public safety, something like that. I don't know.

No, they can't, because this property, 20, 30 years ago, they wanted to build a warehouse back there.

I remember.

And all this fighting went on about whether it could go or not. And Kurt Barnett, who owns the veterinary clinic, the only way this would be approved is if they were to put a center, they were gonna have this, they had to put three lanes out of 11. They had to approve that other site. And the only way they could do that is if Kurt agreed to sell them the ground or a right of way. And I looked at Kurt in that meeting and said, "You're not gonna give them a right of way or sell the ground." He said, "Never." That was the end of it, because he couldn't do it.

So the same way here, if the Battys don't want to sell them a right of way or whatever access, for emergency purposes, not for regular access. But now my question is right now, with fire trucks are getting bigger and bigger, if there's a fire now, the only access is to come in Stambaugh Lane and back this road. It may or may not be wide. I don't know.

Ed can answer that.

Presiding officer: Is Mr. Beam here?

Mr. Grove: You said the owner's here. I don't know. No, he's not. He was here last time. Tracy, I don't know. Ed can answer that. But again, we are not in the position, at least I'm not, to force anybody to do anything. So what I gathered from our attorney, and it will also be brought up at the supervisors. I'm sure this will be discussed this coming Friday morning if you come Friday morning. You gonna be here? It'll be recommended for approval if we... So you gonna stay overnight or travel back to work? I think they're from Pittsburgh area. Or the following Wednesday.

So legally they have solved the problem of crossing the bridge for construction.

Correct. In morals. That's correct. They have a plan. Let's put it that way. They have a plan. It's in morals.

And the plan is...

Mr. Grove: To close the bridge.

From the standpoint of engineering, it's...

Sound. It appears, and I'm gonna use the word appears to be sound, not having reviewed all the structural info. But based on history and past experience of this type of bridge, I would say it appears... It's not unreasonable to say that it appears to be sound.

Okay. Now, further down the road, we have the challenge of fighting potential fires, right?

Further down the road, that's an issue that Ed Beam tells me they can fight a fire now at that site.

Ed's comment was that they would run a five-inch line from the hydrant on the plate to the head of the bridge and put a Y on it, take two attack lines back to fight a house fire back there.

Yeah. The hydrant's at the kitchen shop.

Unidentified commission member: At the kitchen shop.

Mr. Grove: At the kitchen shop. It's not that far away. But that's the plan that they have now, that they had. They have a plan for that site. They've had it.

Exactly. Will that bridge... Does it have a pump across that bridge? You're gonna get water there with a five-inch line, but you're gonna have to pump her over there on the other side.

I think Ed would give you the answer to that. The way that Brad Tracy, he's gonna put a splitter right at the bridge and just attack lines from there. I would suggest that if you have any questions for Ed, he's not here tonight, but I'm sure it won't be a Friday morning. Rather than make some assumption without him being present.

It's fair.

If it would come to an emergency, it would give them access on the bridge. If the neighbor's house was on fire, and they gotta cross the concrete there.

Well, the question was asked, are large trucks crossing that bridge?

Yeah, my truck crossed the bridge last night.

Presiding officer: Tri-axle.

Unidentified commission member: Loaded with soil.

Well, then maybe the bridge needs to be redone. I mean, there's a lot of what-ifs here. Well, if they're crossing it with tri-axle...

Crossing it legally, crossing it to get across.

Well, it's still crossing it, and it shouldn't be crossed if those trucks exceed the posted speed limit. Weight. So there's another... It's the posted weight limit, correct.

So it's 10 ton, posted 10 ton weight limit. If you're crossing with a tri-axle, then it's 12% over. So you're at least 73,280. And that's 35...

Are you giving them permission to cross that?

Unidentified commission member: No.

Mr. Grove: All right. Thank you. Are those strict violations for moving stuff like that? There you go.

So I think we've examined this at quite a length. I think, based on the fire chief's own recommendation that there needs to be further action, I don't know whether we need a motion for this, Mark, but I think we would recommend that it not be approved until this is satisfactorily resolved as was asked at the last meeting.

It's not our job to approve all the alternate things. The construction criteria.

You can make a comment directly to the board of supervisors, what Jim just said. They're the ones... The plan meets the ordinance requirements. So therefore...

So we're pushing the what-ifs that we're talking about here to the supervisors and...

I'm pushing it. They're the only ones that have the power to... The supervisors will act on it.

My take on this is we don't have a basis to recommend denial. Approval. Maybe, unfortunately. But we do have... We can recommend approval.

You can recommend approval and provide comments on the mitigation plan. A strong comment.

Unidentified commission member: But we can fill in the blank as to how we feel.

Well, I see it differently when you create a public hazard, and our own fire chief has said it needs to be further action. I don't know why we would approve anything when the fire chief says that he recommends no further actions.

Unidentified commission member: I can understand that, Jim.

Well, I understand that, too. If you read the email, though...

Jim (Planning Commission): I have read the email three times.

Mike (HRG): The email says it meets the satisfactory components and requirements.

I agree with you. I have been fighting for this personally myself.

He follows up and he says, "In the future..."

Mr. Grove: Yes, but...

Jim (Planning Commission): "It would..." Do you want me to read it?

Read the part before that.

I read that, and he follows up with a caveat, and he says, "In the..."

The plan is planned to be satisfactory and fulfills the requirements for the fire department and emergency services.

And he goes on to say... So you... Don't interrupt me. "In the future, it would be prudent for the developer..." I take that as a recommendation.

Unidentified commission member: It's a suggestion.

Jim (Planning Commission): A strong suggestion. So again, I don't think we should be creating, you know, situations like that.

Are we afraid to exercise true leadership? Because we have a habit. There's kind of a habit of, well, it's not really approved yet, or it is approved, and yeah, somebody's gonna do something, you know. So at some point it has to... You know, you have to draw the line.

I agree. I've been fighting with it myself. But I am looking at what is allowed. I've been in this business for 40 years.

Unidentified speaker: Can you believe that? That's amazing.

Well, maybe not that long. But it meets all of our requirements for plan approval.

It's about emergency access.

Mr. Grove: Okay. Now, the catch is, it's not a catch. We have no legal basis to deny it based upon his mitigation plan. There's nothing in our ordinance that says...

Back to the updated ordinance.

Well, I agree, but we can't handle it now. We can't address that now. We have to address what is presently on the books.

Unidentified resident: Can I ask a question before we keep going?

Mr. Grove: Oh, don't interrupt me, please.

Unidentified resident: Okay. I won't. I'll hold on asking that for just a second.

We can only address what we have on the books. What we are allowed to do is address how it is mitigated and provide comments to the board. Where the board has the power now is because it's on a public road. So the board has the power to approve the mitigation or deny it. If they deny the mitigation, okay, guess what? They're gonna be talking to the neighbors. My suggestion and recommendation to you is to approve it, but add a strong comment about doing something in the future, what can be done, what ordinance can be changed so this does not come up again.

But I agree with you.

Legally, I can tell you right now, I'm not a lawyer, but we can't turn this plan down because we don't like their mitigation plan. The way it will be appealed.

And so if we were to approve this with a strong comment, and this goes to the board of supervisors on this Friday morning at 7:30 AM, they're going to know what that strong comment is.

They should. Exactly. You got the township manager here, you've got Mark here, you've got me here. Okay? And anybody else that wants to come.

Unidentified resident: I know where you're coming from. There's no minutes ready.

Mr. Grove: Yeah. There's none. For Friday morning.

Right. Now, I have personally seen that happen. Because I've gone to the supervisors meetings just to follow the trail to see what happens and what's discussed and what's said.

Well, this is a case where... My planning commission members all come to the supervisors meeting on Friday.

I'll be there. Huh? I'll be there.

There you go. If you feel that strongly about it, then come to the meeting.

Well, there's another option. We have until September 2nd for this action. It's on the agenda, though, isn't it? It doesn't need to be acted on tonight. Is it appropriate, if we were to act, to say we recommend approval waivers, as you've stated, and recommend approval with the conditions, your letter to the commission, the county, but then can we add a third condition for our recommendation to the board that says the developer acquired agreement with the landowner for emergency access prior to them acting?

You can add any condition you want. I would feel more confident adding that in. Whether that is a condition that can be satisfied or not, I can't answer. But you can add that condition to any motion, any condition.

Because that way you worded it, we only recommend approval if that happens prior.

I think that's a good way to put it.

That would be our third condition.

The board of supervisors have the right to waive that condition, don't they? They have the right anyway without us recommending.

They have the right... If this plan, to be honest with you, if you recommend the plan be denied, come to think of it, at this meeting, they have the right to come to the supervisors anyway. And the supervisors can approve. So ultimately, the way the system is set up, the supervisors are the ones that can solve this. And their solicitor will be happy. They can approve it. I don't want to be the solicitor. They can approve it.

What is your intention approve that project if that project is not good? It's emergency access. Why? What is your intention?

Well, they're gonna act on it right now.

Your question again, I'm sorry, was to question about the emergency access?

What's your intention to approve that project?

Unidentified commission member: That's what we're discussing, is the emergency access.

Hilda Vazquez: You say, say no, it's no because the project is not good. It's good or not good? Only one question. It's good or not good? Respond. The project is good or not good? Because the project is not good, why you continue around, around, around the same way, looking for something in the corner, "Oh, let me see if I can..." The project is good or not good? It's not good, that discharged. That's it.

We're bound by laws. We are bound by laws.

The project...

We're not bound by laws.

We are bound by laws. The project is for solar panels.

I never... I'm sorry. Like I said, I worked for the City of Irvine Public Works for 12 years. I've never heard of a project being approved without emergency access. Ever.

Unidentified commission member: It has.

Unidentified resident: Ever.

Unidentified commission member: It has in Irvine.

I'm grateful that at least we got the plans on the screen for the last time so it could be with us.

Our emergency services director, I'm not advocating for this, I'm trying to answer your question. Our emergency service director has approved this plan.

Unidentified resident: He has, but he is making a suggestion for the future.

This is next to homes. So the last question I had in public comment, that somebody came up and said, "What happens if a wind storm comes and one of those panels could damage a home?" I never got an answer out of that public comment. Like, if a panel comes down and damages a home, what would happen? Who would pay for it? And now you wanna approve a plan without an answer.

Well, for accuracy, respectfully, it is in the minutes and there was an answer. And it's found by their insurance of the owner. It's in the minutes.

Unidentified resident: In the minutes... The ones...

Jim (Planning Commission): The ones we just approved.

Unidentified resident: The ones you just approved.

That evening they answered it. The developer answered that evening directly to that question.

Okay. I remember hearing a mishmash of... I'm very, I'm like a yes or no type of person.

John, at Wolf Bridge Road. When Phil sat up there and said, he quoted the coach from the Philadelphia or Pittsburgh Steelers about exceptions and waivers, and if y'all remember that, Mr. Geistwhite, you could... Don, you could... You remember it. Yes. We're not given exceptions and waivers because they're not in the best interest of the township. So why would we go forward with a program, with a project that they keep piecemealing? Can't we just table this until they get their stuff together and bring us back here a comprehensive plan of what's they're gonna do and how they're gonna take care of the fire situation, and the landowner and all that stuff?

Why are we doing piecemeal? Why are we getting a little bit of this, a little bit of that? Let's get a waiver for that, let's get a waiver for this, let's get an exception for that. Why can't we just have them come to us with a comprehensive plan and say, "This is the way it's gonna be. One, two, three, four, five." Instead of us going around and around and around in circles and wasting everybody's time.

Unidentified commission member: When you say they, you're talking about the applicant?

John Manta: They, yeah.

Unidentified commission member: They have.

John Manta: Where is it? Where's all the... They presented it. But there's more exceptions, and there's more waivers and stuff.

You just said there's four of them. There's standard waivers that we grant almost all the time.

John Manta: Why, Sarge? Because... It's Colonel. You can keep calling me Sarge if you want.

Mr. Grove: Listen, listen to me. There are ordinances that we have, to every ordinance, anybody, you can always grant a waiver. Not every ordinance is 100% bulletproof. Waivers are allowed if they are reasonable. So that's why you see almost every plan that there are waiver requests because they are reasonable and practical to grant.

Well, but by their own admission, they have not spoken to the landowner of this property.

Mr. Grove: They have. The waivers have nothing to do with that. The waivers that are proposed, and I'm gonna read them to you.

John Manta: Please do.

Mr. Grove: Okay, then listen.

John Manta: Well, without hearing aids, you're damned up.

Okay, listen to me. And I am not advocating. I'm trying to make a point. Okay?

1. Request for relief from the requirement to submit a DEP planning module, not needed. That has nothing to do with emergency services.

2. Request for relief from the standard or specification for pavement materials for the private access drive. That's nothing to do with emergency services. They submitted an alternate design that is good as or stronger than what we require.

3. Request for relief of the requirement to construct a sidewalk along the property frontage of Shady Lane. There are no sidewalks on Shady Lane, so it's unreasonable for us to ask for that. I recommended granting it.

4. And the last one would be a request for relief from the requirement to construct curbs. There are no curbs on Shady Lane. There's no need for curbs on Shady Lane. So it would be unreasonable for us to require it.

There you go. Did you see anything there that had to do with emergency services?

John Manta: Huh? The road.

Mr. Grove: As in... No. The road is the access into the site.

John Manta: You have no idea, Sarge, because you haven't seen...

Mr. Grove: I'm gonna tell you, it's Colonel. Colonel. Okay, Colonel. We've called you Sarge, I will now call you Colonel. Thank you. Become more familiar with plans if you're gonna make an objection.

Well, I have to... My objection is not to your plan.

Mr. Grove: We have engineers. We review plans to the Nth degree, and I am gonna say right now how I feel about this. We do our best to make sure that ordinances are complied to. We do not grant anybody access or approval or recommend approval for something that should not be approved. We take our job seriously. I'm a professional.

John Manta: Yes, sir. I agree.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that.

Mr. Grove: Well, you are. You were in line. You were making an interruption.

John Manta: No, I'm asking a question. We can't table this until they secure the permissions from the landowner?

We can't, and I'm giving you my advice. The supervisors can do that. But we're gonna recommend to the supervisors. We are recommending. They can vote on this plan with a comment of recommend that they try to get, or they get, or try to get. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know that they can get that emergency access, and that's all. It has nothing to do with the waivers that he states. Zero.

I'm asking questions. I mean, you guys are supposed to be educating us, right?

Well, then let us educate you.

I will. And thank you for your time.

We're gonna move on here. Thank you.

We have to kind of decide and discuss what we'd like to do.

Have you come up with a motion?

Unidentified commission member: I've written possible.

What I was writing was instead of just doing our standard, "If you're recommending approval," but county, I also have a third condition that said, "The developer acquired agreement with the landowner, Beatty family, for emergency access to the property prior to board approval." That's as added from us as a third condition. We own that additional approval, but it's written in my mind that we have three things that need to be met. And for us to approve, we're adding a third condition.

Makes sense to me. Incidentally, we haven't gotten the county's input yet.

Well, who are they?

Well, our reviewer board, they did have a number of administrative changes...

I'm sorry, can you tell us who you are first? Because you don't have a name plate.

Ms. Grant: Sure, no problem. Elizabeth Grant.

And please speak up a little bit because some of us are hard of hearing.

Elizabeth Grant, I'm with Cumberland County Planning Department. I'm here to represent our review comments on the plan. And certainly, our review was based on the first iteration of this plan. It has gone through some modifications since our review comments were provided. I know that I've seen some things like the clear sight triangle was added, other administrative comments that we had on the plan were addressed. Let me see here.

Apologize, my computer's a little slow.

You need a copy of your comments or...

No, I'm just trying to scroll through the review report. I apologize. It's taking a minute here. I would say probably the one more substantive comment that we just had was recommending considering additional vegetation in that 100-foot buffer from the Letort Spring Run.

We will consider that.

Unidentified commission member: Yeah, we'll consider it. Let's put that in the motion.

Motion to meet the conditions of county planning dated January 22nd. Sorry. That's your most recent, isn't it?

Yeah. We didn't do a review of the most recent iteration of the plan, so yeah, that was dated January 22nd.

Okay. There was just one more thing. Looking through the current email that just was printed, just so we know where the instructions are gonna take place, it appears that the PPL is gonna run across 81 now?

Unidentified commission member: Yeah.

Unidentified commission member: But not that way, the Shady Lane lane will be a private PPL construction.

They're already installed the poles. Right before.

I think I had one more comment, sorry, just regarding the bridge, and this isn't necessarily a comment on the plan, but just as the township's aware, we do have funding available through the Cumberland Bridge Program if this was determined to be a priority for the township to look at the structure of this bridge and make improvements or rehabilitation.

Unidentified commission member: Thank you.

Read the next statement: from us, the developer acquire an agreement with the landowner, Beatty family, for emergency access to the property prior to board approval.

Now, at the supervisor's meeting, when Mr. Beatty was here speaking on behalf of his family, there seemed to be some type of conflict going on with respect to deeds and what's permitted and not permitted. And Keith Brenneman was talking to Mr. Beatty during the meeting about, "Well, we really can't do anything about this. You're gonna have to resolve these issues, you know, amongst yourselves or get legal help," whatever all of that was about and pertaining to. So, by putting this clause in there, what's that? Just, we're just saying that to feel good and writing it in there, and nothing's really gonna happen. Because it sounds like there's already something going on behind the scenes.

Unidentified commission member: There are issues behind the scenes.

With what Mr. Beatty was here talking about.

I don't know. I only tell you that you should put that in your motion, because that's how you do it, right? That's how each one of you does. If we add that as a condition, the supervisors are ultimately gonna look at that and determine, their attorney will be here, if that is a condition that is a reasonable condition that can be satisfied.

Am I correct, though, that the thinking is that I'm only recommending approval if these three are met from the commission?

If three are met, that's legit. Keep in mind that the supervisors will decide whether or not that is a condition that can be met. Okay? And just like I said previously, if you decided tonight to turn down the plans, so be it. Turn it down. But if we write this... But it goes to the board anyway.

I know they have the say. They don't need to listen, but if it's written this way, they would know that if they strike that, that would mean that we would be basically not recommending.

They ultimately approve plans. Not you. You recommend.

And even if they're not to approve, they can still approve, just like the other solar farm. We didn't have... We voted not to approve it, and they approved it.

That's right. By doing this, in my opinion, you are going on record. Each one of you is going on record providing your personal opinion on the record. It should be noted now. If they shoot it down, at least you are on the record saying you don't think it should be.

You guys ready? Add a statement. So, that's about that. You're all comfortable. Okay, so start just making those statements. All right. Then the first would be the waivers, correct?

Unidentified commission member: Yes.

All right. So, move we recommend approval of the three waivers, numbers two, three, and four, for TPF 25-28, preliminary final land development plan for Ahold Delhaize solar development on Shady Lane, removing waiver one.

Unidentified commission member: Second.

All those in favor of approving these waivers, say aye.

Presiding officer: Those nay?

Nay. And for the reasons for the prior applicant's failure to follow up, I guess they didn't deem it important, and for the reason that it was strongly recommended course of action by the fire chief. So in the best interest of the community, don't recommend approval until that's resolved.

So you're aye on the nay. But you're aye on the waivers, but nay on the total motion. Minority is separated, right?

No, that was just... That was just waivers. Oh, my bad. I apologize. Aye.

Unidentified commission member: Aye for the waivers.

Unidentified commission member: Unanimous.

Okay. So it's aye on the waivers.

I move that we recommend approval of TPF 25-28 with the following three conditions. One, meet the conditions of Bud Grove's letter to the Planning Commission dated June 5th, 2026. Two, meet the conditions of the county Planning Commission dated January 22nd, 2026. And three, the developer acquire an agreement with the landowner, Beatty family, for emergency access to the property prior to board approval.

Correction. It's June, my memorandum dated June 19th.

I will make that change to June 19th.

June 19th. It says June 18th.

Thank you. So that was condition one, dated June 19th.

So read the third condition again.

Condition three, the developer acquire an agreement with the landowner, Beatty family, for emergency access to the property prior to board approval.

So what we're saying is, we agree that the mechanics of this is they've met, as you said, they've met the requirements of the ordinances, but we as a planning commission are saying, you know, we're agreeing that they met those, but until they secure an agreement with the Beatty family for emergency access, we're not approving the plan.

Did you say secure an agreement? I said the developer acquire an agreement. Would you rather me strengthen and say secure?

Presiding officer: No. Use that word.

Wes (Planning Commission): Because that's the only way I'm recommending approval personally, and if that's how we vote, is that they must do that before the board.

Unidentified commission member: Absolutely. I understand.

Okay. Did I word it? No, I thought that might be it. I was concerned that it might have been a softer word. No, the developer acquire an agreement.

If they don't have the agreement in hand...

Then we would not recommend approval. That's right. Second.

Moved and seconded. All in favor say aye.

Presiding officer: All opposed same nay. Okay, motion passed. Who does this go to now?

Does it go to you, Mark? I don't know who this goes to. Okay, Zach. Is Jim opposed? Oh, okay.

So will you be coming to the supervisors meeting this Friday, 7:30?

I am. You bring your sleeping bag?

All right, we're now moving on to discussion, possible action on PA DEP sewage facility planning module, component 4A, municipal planning agency review for Pennsylvania Digital PAX-1.

You have this document?

Unidentified resident: We have.

Is that this, the one?

Mike (HRG): Yeah.

Mark? There were two documents. One appeared to be for the county planning and the other appeared to be for the municipal planning.

You mean what I emailed to you?

Unidentified resident: Yeah, but they were both TPF 25-25. It just seems like it was redundant information, it just was a different label attached to it.

I'm submitting a request to you for the data center project. And it's reviewed by the township planning commission, the county planning commission, and the municipal board. So I gave you the two other approvals. Yours is the blank piece of paper I gave you. And I gave it to you in an email also. Do you recommend on Component 4A municipal approval, township planning commission?

Unidentified resident: Who sent us the files with these two pages on? 52 pages.

Mike (HRG): Yes, we pulled two files, but it's only two pages really. And I attached the other items to the back of it just for support of it. Yeah, it's a long document. But in your packet tonight, you have a copy of it there.

Is this something that you usually came to the planning meeting already filled out because you have these facts and then we...

Yes. So I would help you, but I don't want to presume this. You know, I don't wanna be led. So you can decide how you'd like to fill it out. I can help you if you'd like.

So you're saying we just have these two pages to read?

Mike (HRG): Yes. We can go through item by item if you want.

Is there a comprehensive plan adopted under the MPC? Item one. How do you want to fill that out, yes or no?

We do have a... The answer is yes.

Yes. Is the proposed PAX-1 development consistent with the comprehensive plan for land use? Yes or no? I'd say yes.

No.

Okay. Even though we...

What? Is it consistent with the use development, protection of water resources, yes or no?

No.

Anybody else want to answer? You've seen what we're looking at, how can you look for flags?

You want us to answer these questions...

We're answering them now as we go along.

Mike (HRG): We're answering them now as we go along. And then somebody's gonna sign it.

We don't have pieces of paper. I'm not quite ready. Can you put it up so we can read this meeting, what's going on?

Yeah. This is sewage planning for the PAX-1 data center project.

So we're comparing about a 52-page document.

This is business of the planning commission to act on the planning module request for the sewage, for the plan. For the entire phase one, two, three as a whole. The entire project.

I think Mark normally does this himself.

Mike (HRG): No, I can suggest, I have what the Cumberland County Planning filled, how they filled it out. We can just go through it, or what do you want to do?

Yeah, I mean, the documents you sent us, there was like, I don't know, a lot of pages, right?

Mike (HRG): Yes. 53.

Wes (Planning Commission): There were many people, like, filled sheets, it was like almost repetitive in all these different organizations filling it out.

Very precise. I'm not sure, but this is required by the State of Pennsylvania that we fill out this form. And I can help you to fill it out.

Planning modules are something every municipality that has sewage... it's the state's plan of sewage for this particular project.

And I have one filled out, I could go...

What I'm getting at is, he normally does this and presents it to you for signature. He feels it's best in this case, and I agree with him, that we should go over it to help you. That's what he's proposing.

Well, I can go through it real quickly.

Unidentified commission member: Well, that's what we want you to do.

Mike (HRG): We can do that. Number four... Is it consistent... What's number three? Number three, is it consistent with use, development, and protection of water resources? What do you think?

Unidentified commission member: I think yes, I guess. Of course it's a problem with the water resources.

Mark, can you grab the microphone? Some of the people in the back are having problems.

Number four, is the proposal consistent with municipal land use planning relative to prime agricultural land preservation? I would say yes. The county said yes also. This is not prime ag land.

This is not the last one. It would be a no.

Mike (HRG): Correct.

Number five, does the project propose encroachments, obstructions, or dams that will affect wetlands? Yes, it does. The county said yes, and that DEP will approve those impacts. They'll be remediated and approved by DEP.

Yeah, of course.

Number six, will any known historical or archeological resources be impacted by the project? No. They did an archeological study. There's no impact of historical or archeological resources. Seven, will any known endangered or threatened species of plant or animal be impacted by this project?

Unidentified resident: Yes.

Mike (HRG): Yes. Multiple plant and animal species were hit on with the...

PNDI.

Mike (HRG): Yeah, PNDI.

When I was reading over that, I couldn't get to page, one page talking about the bald eagle nest. I couldn't read the fourth or fifth page. The first three loaded for me. Or two bats, so...

Yeah, there was bats. Well, what happened with the bald eagle nest is that they're doing everything to preserve it, and they're doing everything DEP requires.

Buffer was 600 feet or grounds. One second.

The details are in the environmental impact assessment report. It's about 900 pages.

I mean, reading through all those, everything from Indiana bats to all different kind of studies they went through in there, are all these agencies that Mike went through, the whole list of them there, are they all signing off on this?

Yes. They are. Yes, they showed us that in the EIAR.

When I was reading, Mark, I thought that one agency said possible for having a negative impact.

Well, there was different plants identified, and they showed how they were gonna protect those plant communities. I think you may be right, Wes, but those agencies have the right to give input on it. I don't know the answer to your... I don't know. But there is impact to endangered or threatened species in plant and animals, so that's a yes, and there was hit on the PNDI, and they have proposed how to mitigate it.

Is there a municipal zoning ordinance?

Wes (Planning Commission): Yes.

Yes. Is it consistent with the ordinance? Yes. Does the proposal require a change or variance to the existing comprehensive plan or zoning ordinance? No. There's no change. The ordinance allows this use by right. By right on the declaration. Have all applicable zoning approvals been obtained? I would say yes. I mean, I know we're still in the process of the subdivision approvals, but zoning approvals are obtained. Is there a municipal subdivision and land development ordinance? Yes. Is the proposal consistent with the subdivision and land development ordinance? By and large, yes. We're not completely done with our review. But it will be. I think you could write yes, or you could write no and describe it.

Is the plan consistent with the municipal official sewage facilities plan? Yes. It is. I mean, that's why we're submitting the planning module. Is there waste water disposal needs in the area adjacent to the proposal that should be considered by the municipality? No, we don't have any knowledge of malfunctions of properties along Country Club Road that needs sewage. Has the waiver to sewage facility planning been requested for residual tract of the subdivision? Nick, what's the answer to that? I think it's no, right? Correct. It's no, they're not asking for a waiver. And then that's it, and then you just sign it at the bottom. Thank you.

Sir, I'm just signing at the bottom.

Number 13, we didn't answer, did we?

Unidentified commission member: Yeah, we did. Yes.

Unidentified commission member: Is it consistent with the subdivision ordinance?

Mike (HRG): Yes.

Unidentified commission member: I think that's what it's referring to.

Okay. Jason, I'll get with you after we're decided. Okay, thank you. Does the commission wanna make a motion?

And this was Rory's approval. Rory, our sewage management officer, is okay with this.

Rory's the general manager of the municipal authority, and yes, they did approve it.

Okay. So they were all yes except for 5, 10, 15, and 16?

I have a no on number six.

No, and I have yes on five.

Mike (HRG): No on number 10.

Unidentified commission member: 15 and 16.

Mike (HRG): Yes, correct.

So one question I have on this is, you know, it frequently refers to comprehensive plan. And I have probably a little bit of trouble with yes on those, because first of all, it's so outdated, right? And it talks largely about the benefit of the community, blah, you know, and all that type of thing. So I think that's a reach versus zoning, right?

Well, the only thing, number 10, Jim, if you read it, does it require a change or a variance to the comp plan or the zoning ordinance?

Yeah, I'll just back up with one. Like, is there a municipal comprehensive plan adopted? So that'd be yes. Then it says, two, is this proposal consistent with the comprehensive plan use? And, you know, there seems to be quite a debate over whether the use zoning is consistent with the...

Mike (HRG): You can answer no if you'd like.

Jim (Planning Commission): I just thought it up for discussion, that's all.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with it. That's up to you guys. I don't know if Mike wants to get into that, too, but my personal opinion is unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your personal opinion, we have a comprehensive plan in place now. But does this, is it consistent with the plan that is in place now? Correct.

Probably not.

Mr. Grove: You could answer no if you'd like.

And I was just drawing the variance between comprehensive plan versus zoning. Like, I think Rory had dropped around the zoning, but is it, you know, so.

Yeah, comprehensive plan leads to zoning.

Jim (Planning Commission): I understand.

You want number two to be no, then?

Jim (Planning Commission): I'm okay. I was raising it.

Okay. Yes. How did the county answer?

No questions. I move we approve the component 4A for the facility planning agency review form with each item marked yes except for items six, 10, 15, and 16.

What about two? Did we just... I thought we just said two.

Now, you guys didn't have any consensus about two. Jim shook his head. Do you want two to be yes? The county answered yes, it is consistent with the comp plan. That's the county comp plan.

Unidentified commission member: Second.

So moved and second. All in favor of approval, please say aye.

Presiding officer: Opposed, nay. Motion carries.

Moving on to TPF 25-26, discussion of possible recommendation of preliminary plan, land development plan, Pennsylvania Digital PAX-1, Phase 2.

Mr. Chairman, if it'd be okay, we could go through both phase two and 1C, the presentation that Nick's gonna give, if that's okay. And so phase two is the second data center campus. Phase 1C is actually a construction laydown area, which will also contain construction trailers for construction.

Unidentified commission member: That'll be across the road on top of the hill.

Mr. Giorgione: Yes. And then during the presentation, at your last planning commission meeting, you raised several issues, this board and the public. Nick's gonna address some of those issues during the presentation. Those that he does not address, I'll clean it up a little bit after that.

Then I think what we'll do is we'll walk through the waivers that apply. Phase two has the same waivers as 1B. I think there's 11 of those, and there's five waivers for 1C. And so then we'll open it up to any questions. Does that make sense? Okay. I'm gonna turn it over to Nick then to go through the plan. You guys have seen this before at the last meeting, so we'll probably go through it fairly quickly.

Hi, Nick Long, Senior PM with Livic Civil. Yeah, like Andy said, we're gonna try and keep this short. I mean, you've seen this a couple of times. And go through some of these, answer some of these questions you all had at last meeting. So let's get started. Phase two preliminary plan, it was first submitted November the 26th of last year. We've received comments, recent comments of June 9th, which we're almost fully completed addressing. There was only a few of them, and I can let Mike speak about those at the end when we go through the waivers.

I have comments June 8th. It says June 8th on there.

Oh, I'm sorry, June 8th. I think we might have received them June 9th, but the June 8th... We're on the same page. We also resubmitted county comments on June 1st. And as Andy mentioned, we do have the same waivers we had on phase 1B. They're in alignment with HRG's most recent letter, being listed. I do wanna note, we did remove the base under drain that came up on the last few phases. And we can go over that in more detail at the end. So here's the phasing plan.

Phase two is the lighter purple here. You have phase 1A, which is the light blue that contains the PPL substation and PA Data Drive. This phase has gone through the final approval through the board of supervisors. Phase 1B to the north is the first campus. That has preliminary approval. Phase 1C, which we'll speak about in a few minutes, is south of Country Club Road, which is also, like I said, on tonight's agenda. Phase three, the light purple to the southwest corner of the site, is the third campus. So I think everybody situated with the site again, Conodoguinet.

Around the north part of the site, we have Country Club Road, which bisects the site. And then Interstate 81 is down here in the lighter orange.

Existing conditions for phase two. You can see that bright purple on my screen, but it looks like bright blue on the screens up here. That is the PPL laydown. So if you drive out Country Club Road, that's where you'll see the contractor trailers and the access to the site. Site plan. So we have five buildings, approximately 150,000 square feet, surrounded by the security fence. The blue is the stormwater basins. They're blue for illustration purposes. As I'll remind you, they do not hold water for more than 72 hours. And you'll see that the main point of access is here, by the roundabout.

It is just off of Country Club Road. And then also drawing attention to the security between the campus and the access point here of the roundabout. There's a little bit there. Landscaping plan. So the green is meadow mixes and lawn. You can see some hatching here around the outside. These are riparian buffers, reforestation. So as part of this plan, we're enhancing these riparian buffers, which have been, you know, over the years, the farming on the site has been breakups to the floodplain into the wetlands. So we're improving those riparian buffer areas with reforestation in the floodplain outside of the wetlands and the floodplain area.

Those reforestation efforts will be native plants and trees. I will also note too the stormwater basins will be planted with wetland seed mixes.

Will the stormwater basins be mowed and maintained or...

There will be, yes. There's an operation and maintenance. They have to be mowed, I think it's a minimum of once a year. But they're really to promote that evapotranspiration and the infiltration of the water using the wetlands.

Now the meadowlands, will we let them go or do we mow those once a year or?

Yeah. Those will be left. You know, they need to be mowed when appropriate to keep the non-native species, the invasive species. You know, we have a lot of problems with trees that have been, those types of things pop up.

Unidentified speaker: Multiflora rose.

Mr. Long: Multiflora rose, barberry, those types of things. So the goal was to use these native grasses to promote, you know, the butterflies and things, those types of things. So the last meeting, we had some questions come up concerning water and the generators. So I'm gonna run through a few of these. The five buildings and the entire campus, I'll just note that we have 400,000 gallons per day allocated from MTMA, and that is to serve the entire site.

The onsite storage for this phase alone is ten million gallons. So between 400,000 gallons per day and the onsite storage is how the water will be used on the site for this campus. So we're not gonna use more than 400,000 gallons a day, but we could use less, and we will mitigate the peaks left to storage on site.

For clarity, we're talking about PAX 2 here?

Mr. Long: Yes. Campus 2.

Jim (Planning Commission): So 400,000 was for all three?

Mr. Long: All three campuses.

Jim (Planning Commission): So the ten million, is that the whole campus or is that just...

Mr. Long: For Campus 2, phase two.

Jim (Planning Commission): You referenced 400,000, but that's for all three.

Mr. Long: For the total campus. The total site.

Let me ask a question here. How much built-in extra is there to this 400,000? Because if we look into the future, or compare the future to 50 years ago, and you say this might last 50 years, we've had a tremendous amount of global warming. Now, standing today it's cold and chilly. How much global warming have you put into these calculations?

Our water consultant has done these calculations. I have not personally done any of these calculations, but our water consultant confirmed that the 400,000 gallons per day and ten million gallons of storage for this phase, the hybrid cooling systems can manage the site with the water that's been allocated.

So you're not prepared to answer whether that is a number that you say, "Yeah, we'll get by with that," or we've put in 25% extra. You're not prepared to answer that.

Our tenant would respond to that question that they have designed a 30% increase in storage to be able to have sufficient to make sure that they don't run out of water. They can't run out of water because the equipment's too expensive and it can't get too hot in those buildings. And then they come here and start begging.

Everything's being designed and built including the storage around 400,000 gallons a day. Because everything's being done that way.

Okay. You guys have... You show 14 million gallons of storage in your drawings here.

So yeah, these plans were submitted about a month ago, and we're revising those plans to show, as we're working through final design. On campus one we'll start to replicate some of those changes on phase two and phase three. So there will be a reduction in those storage tanks.

You're talking about phase two right now.

Mr. Long: Yes. And there will be a reduction in those storage tanks.

Is that five two-million-gallon tanks? Is that what it is?

Yeah. I think it's around five. Yeah, it's five two mil. I can't, off the top of my head, because it is phase one, but phase two of the plans will be updated when we resubmit.

Well, I mean on phase two. You said 10 million. Is that five tanks at two million?

Yeah. What we have designed in phase one, we'll carry those same designs into phase two, with our resubmission.

How much will the effluent from this plant warm the Conodoguinet?

We're directly discharging to the MTMA sewer system.

Unidentified commission member: And where does that go?

Mr. Long: And that goes to the sewer treatment plant.

Unidentified commission member: Where does that go?

Mr. Long: That would go into the Conodoguinet after it's treated and cooled through the sewer treatment plant.

That's the question. How much is this gonna change?

That would be a water treatment plant question because the Carlisle Authority manages the water treatment plant.

It's gonna cool thermally on the way to the plant.

Absolutely. It's a few miles down to the treatment plant.

Yeah, but you will heat that soil around it, and after six months it won't be cooling anymore, so.

So there's tanks on the site that it'll be attenuated. So there is, I believe, one tank on site to attenuate that flow. So it'll sit on site, it'll start to cool on site, and then it'll be sent down the conveyance pipes.

I wish we could see the temperature of the water, the highest possible temperature of the water that leaves the site.

So these water tanks too, I'll mention that there will be ongoing maintenance. There will be a crew, you know, on site 24/7 in these tanks. I'm not sure if it was Mr. Garrett brought it up or not, but, you know, what happens if one of these tanks has an issue? Well, just like any tank, MTMA has a water tank, they could go offline. They do the repairs.

You heat that water, it's got energy in it. Where is the energy going?

It's going to raise the temperature around the area by 16 degrees.

I've reminded you people before of, like, Newton's first law. Energy cannot be destroyed or created, therefore you put it in the water, it's gotta show up someplace.

Unidentified speaker: So the heat's gonna go somewhere.

Yes. So any heat on this site, I mean, there's workers. There's gonna be precautions taken. The heat that would come from this site, you know, it's gonna come up the generators too. There's workers on this site. There's maintenance. There's O&M plans. There's protocols in place.

And it goes down the pipe towards the...

Right. And it'll go to the plant, and it'll meet all the criteria.

And how much will it raise the water temperature?

We'll find out the answer.

Okay. Thank you. I'm gonna move on to the generators. So there is no central diesel storage on the site. I'll repeat that again. There is no central diesel storage on site. I think there might've been some misunderstanding in the last meeting. There will be a central refueling location for the buildings. So all the generators will be filled at one point.

Unidentified commission member: I'm sorry. I don't understand what you're saying.

Mr. Long: So there will be one point to fill the fuel tanks for the generators.

Unidentified commission member: So you're gonna have them piped?

We're gonna have them all connected, so there'll be a diesel distribution pipe system on campus.

Unidentified commission member: For each building?

Mr. Long: For each building. For each generator.

Unidentified commission member: Okay. So if you have 16 buildings, you'd have 16 fill points.

Correct. With double wall piping, secondary containment, you know, meeting all the permitting and the codes that are needed for that.

Well, that's encouraging. I mean, I think that's much more controllable.

Yeah, that was based on our discussions with the tenant. So just to be clear, though, because I know you had a concern at the last meeting about the storage of diesel. There will not be storage.

Unidentified commission member: We were just looking for clarity.

Mr. Giorgione: I understand. But the one thing the tenant did clarify for us, too, is rather than having a truck move to each generator and refill, which could be more spills, there's one central location.

Unidentified commission member: One per building.

Mr. Giorgione: Correct. So you have 16 filling points. Correct.

Okay. And every diesel has its own tank.

Correct. Every one has a fuel tank.

While we're on the generators and the storage of the fuel, I know I've brought up in the past numerous times about the possibility of natural gas. I know the tenant is not interested. But in my conversation with Representative Gleim today, I was informed that going through the House tomorrow, there's gonna be a vote on trying to force clean energy on the data centers in the state moving forward. And in my conversation with her, she was understanding that it would be basically, say, natural gas over diesel, to my understanding. But are you guys familiar with that at all or have any information about that?

Yeah, we do track the legislation. We're watching what's going through. It's an interesting time of year. Obviously, this bill has to come out of the House committee, then it's got to go to the full House, then it's got to go to the Senate. And so there's a lot of things that have to happen before the budget gets done, which we believe is gonna happen next week. But we're tracking all the bills. I don't know where this is on the budget trade list, but I don't know if it's actually there at this point.

Could be something that may come up in the fall. But we do alert the tenants, so they're aware of what legislation's moving through the system, so they can prepare for it. I recall one of the discussions with the tenant is concerns about natural gas because of temperature and heat and some other things, that diesel is actually the more preferred method.

I just wanted to bring that up, make sure it was out there with you guys. And again, just voicing my strong opinion for air quality. Natural gas is the way to go in my view. But again, it was one piece of the overall.

Speaking of the tenant, are we able to do that yet?

Mr. Giorgione: We're getting close.

AWS?

Well, have you advised the tenants that you have a natural gas line within half a mile away?

Mr. Giorgione: They're aware.

Presiding officer: And we've also built a large reserve capacity for natural gas. Pennsylvania has more natural gas than most states in the country. And just like the old farmer back here that used to... I asked him what his secret was to his success. He said, "On feeding cattle, you feed what you have the most of." So we've got a lot of natural gas, and you guys want to use diesel.

I think we need to consider looking at natural gas.

Have you guys garnered, you know, how much diesel fuel will be brought on site on a regular basis for refueling, assuming there's no outage?

So the tanks could be up to sixty-five hundred gallons, the belly tanks underneath. So they'll need to be kept full. But, I mean, that's based on, of course, the run schedule.

Yeah. The question is, is that one tanker a day? Is that once a... You know, is that one tanker a month?

I mean, I think we can get that answer for you, but it's probably gonna be a little hard to, you know. But yeah, I think based on the thirty minutes a month test for each generator, once a month they run, and it could even be, you know, less than once a month, depending on the maintenance schedule. But we can follow up with that answer. Try and get an estimate for you.

Being as they're sixty-four hundred gallons, do you have to get a permit for every generator from DEP on the site boundary?

So the concrete cannot even be poured for the generators until everything is permitted, the air, the arrangements for the tank, fuel, everything. They can't start pouring the concrete until they're fully approved for an engine.

Unidentified commission member: So you're doing permitted inspection schedules and so forth and so on. Full compliance.

Mr. Long: Yes, full compliance and all the regulations. All the codes.

So I'm gonna move on to phase 1C. Phase 1C, the yellow down here, between Country Club Road and Interstate 81. So this is the laydown area.

This plan has, I believe, five waivers, which we can go over in a little more detail at the end. This plan was initially submitted on April seventeenth. We resubmitted on May twenty-second, and we received comments back on June eighth. Again, same day. So I had June ninth, but the legal team named. We resubmitted to the county to address those comments on 6/1. The waivers, which we can speak in a little more detail here in a few minutes, are aligned with HRG's most recent comment letter, with the exception of the base under drain that I mentioned, the one waiver. So this, like I said, is roughly a seven-acre laydown for the construction trailers.

You can see as on phase two, we have some blue basins here. They're just the same type of basins as phase two. They're showing the blue for illustration, but these basins will not hold water more than seventy-two hours per DEP regulations. We are showing screening and berms around the south and along Country Club Road. There is a security fence around the laydown area. That security fence is eight feet high and will have the black material for screening.

Now, is this laydown area for the construction materials for the data center?

Yeah, it's for the temporary construction trailers. Of the data center.

The other laydown is for PPL.

Correct. It is being used for some office trailers now until this is approved, but this is to have the office trailers away from the site as construction starts to move forward.

And this is still assumed to use temporary, just until the construction. And you have no future plans to build or develop?

No. So this will go back to... In our next submission back to the township and HRG, we'll have a restoration plan included. I think there was some discussion the last time. We keep the basins and, you know, just put the gravel and everything else back. The berms can stay, the trees can stay. So, but yeah, the gravel will go away, the construction fence of course, and the trailers, everything will be...

Are you gonna just put it back to grass or are you gonna reforest it? Well, not reforest 'cause it's not forest now. But do you plan to just make it a grassy field?

The intent right now is just to put it back to what it is today, just a grassy field.

All right. Well, you're going to be removing a lot of that hill slope there. What are you gonna do with anything that collects, or creates...

So that would leave these basins in place, and that would help the stormwater and that runoff. The basins are in place.

The gravel will be removed, but then the slope of the land... I'm speaking about the elevation change between the gravel lot, you know, to the top where the fence is.

I mean, I think it would probably make sense just to pull the gravel out and put the topsoil back and replant, 'cause there is gonna be trees on top of this.

So the grading would stay. So it would not go back to original grading, is it?

It would be restored to condition, but yeah, the grading... I mean, that is...

Right now, the berm, would that be wetland? That's the existing wetland. Because in my mind, that's not going back to existing. If you have a wetland, I don't know, if you have a flat area, it just seems very artificial.

It does have a two to three percent slope across this. Let me jump to, I think there's been some questions about how does this get... There we go. Here's a rendering of what it'll look like.

And on the left side would be the existing wetland where I'm watching that swale. Right in here. Off screen.

You've gotten rid of a whole hill. It was so beautiful.

So this gravel area and the fence will be removed. This driveway would be removed, and this would be put back to the condition today.

You would have a high berm across the top of it. So one of the concerns was the bank that you're encroachers on. So what's the length of that fall, and what's the grade?

It's three to one, and approximately thirty feet from the top of the berm down to the... Thirty feet. Yes, three to one.

Jim (Planning Commission): That's pretty steep.

It's mellow, but yeah, it's not four to one. So I think one of your questions, Jim, was to put the construction fence at the top of the berm. Right now we show it right along the edge of the laydown.

Well, the other concern that we discussed was the safety of kids play, you know, whatever might occur. And then you remove the fence, the grade's still there. So you're not replacing that grade what it is today. You've made it steeper.

We could flatten that slope out, if you would prefer. I mean, three to one's pretty much sled running hill.

There you go. But I would like to see, you know, a nice even grade coming down as it is now. 'Cause, you know, the kids will be back there in the wintertime. Like you said, great for sled riding, but you might just taper it out very easily.

So that's part of tonight, is get your recommendation. So keep the fence along the laydown area for now. When it's removed, we flatten that slope out.

Back to natural state, like at this time.

Jim, have you been down that road? 'Cause they're not showing you in the picture what it looks like now.

Yeah, I was there last week. You've seen it.

I think we're jumping. Am I wrong? We're jumping from phase two to phase... Phases six to one.

Mr. Long: One C.

One C. Where I've been talking about two. We're done with two. We gotta jump that. Okay. We're jumping back and forth, and everybody confused over here.

Nick, if I could, I think a minute ago you mentioned that in your next submission you're gonna provide some details on the restoration plan for 1C. We're gonna wanna take a good look at those, especially with regard to operation and maintenance, because if the stormwater basins are going to remain, they'll have to be maintained. To make sure that they don't become, you know, swamps. Similarly, if we're gonna go back to, like, a meadow seed mix or something like that, that'll also have to be maintained, like we just talked about earlier with phase two, to make sure it doesn't get full of invasives.

So there's probably gonna have to be some operation and maintenance agreement to go along with that restoration plan.

Yeah. I think we could probably handle that through the developer's agreement. And for 1C, I mean, of course, the restoration plan will get recorded with the final. I think that's definitely something we can work through when we get the final too. That makes a lot of sense.

Just a quick question. The existing grade across that hill now is about, like, 10, 12...

Can you speak louder, please?

Oh, I'm sorry. The existing grade across that hill was what, about 10, 12%?

Yeah. Roughly. I think you're in the ballpark.

So the material you're hauling out of there, cutting out of there, you're gonna use someplace else across the street?

1C. Everything's staying on 1C. We balanced 1C by itself.

So 1C is totally down?

Mr. Long: Yes.

Okay, so where I was coming from was, your restoration plan, a pure restoration plan, would put everything back exactly the way that it was. Which would mean removing the basins. Has any consideration been given to that, just to pure restoration back to where it was?

I mean, that's up to, I guess, the planning commission. Would you rather us remove the basins or keep the basins?

Well, if everything's gonna be restored to natural fields, field meadow mix, whatever...

Bud, thank you. That's basically what I was asking.

Why would you even need the basin? Which brings up Mike's question. Now you're into operations and maintenance, and you've got all these other ancillary things that need to be looked at. Keep it simple, get it back to what it was.

That's where I was headed next, 'cause I wasn't clear. But I think it would be a bad idea to put all those basins in there.

Unidentified commission member: Who wants to see that? Why create another problem?

I would be in favor of complete restoration.

That's fine. Complete. What is the acreage of this flattened area?

A little over seven acres.

Okay. And this total is six acres?

Mr. Long: It's a little bit bigger than that existing area now, but 6.2.

Presiding officer: Okay. That's fine.

So I guess, with that being said, remove the basins, but I assume you do not wanna remove the trees and the berm along the street. Those are street trees.

Unidentified commission member: I would keep the trees.

I'll clarify that. Put it back the way it was, except keep the trees.

Has there been any talk about permanently preserving this? 'Cause I know as it stands now, it is still part of the data center overlay. And that's a concern I personally have, is in the future, this could be coming back to us and say, "We would like more data center buildings on plot 1C." And I just think that's an undue burden to the people that live on Country Club Road and the development right beside it that is still going in right now.

We can probably address that in the developer's agreement.

Wes (Planning Commission): Thank you. The developer's agreement for 1C, that's recorded too, right?

Yes. I mean, the developer agreement would be recorded, so it would include... It'd have to be recorded before 1C is approved. Actually, before 1C is recorded.

Wes (Planning Commission): Okay. Perfect. All right.

What are you guys doing about all of the, when it rains? Just so you understand, like, over here where this property will be with the wetlands, like, when it rains a lot, it's water. Like, sometimes that road's 100% underwater at that curve.

And you've got literally hundreds of trucks every day flipping through there, plus hundreds of employees' cars. So what is being addressed with... 'Cause, like, right now, as a local, we just take it through. We know what's there, and we roll with it, right? In the wintertime, we know what it looks like too. But what are you doing to address that with now an additional thousands of vehicles coming across here when we have major downpours, and it's the wetlands coming across that area?

I think Mike can address that.

That would be great, 'cause it's really important.

Yeah, I don't know that I can answer the question, but I have similar questions about Country Club Road and the phasing of the improvements of Country Club Road and what will be done and when. With phase 1A, we have a developer's agreement with you guys which includes reconstruction of the frontage of phase 1A as part of 1A. It's unclear in what we've received for phases 1C and two when those Country Club roadway improvements will be provided. I think in some of the correspondence, Nick indicated with phase 1C that the frontage of 1C and two would be improved. I think that would be okay, as long as 1C comes first.

You know, if two comes first, then that doesn't work. There's also a little bit of an issue in that 1C and two don't have the same frontage. 1C has a little bit more frontage than two. So again, as long as we're doing more improvements earlier, I think that's okay, but I think we wanna make sure that in the developer's agreement we don't have a situation where we're doing fewer improvements later. There's also an issue with the roadway design, the roadway cross-section. In phase 1A, you guys requested modifications, and Bud and I looked at it and agreed that the cross-section you proposed worked better than what would've been required from strict adherence to the ordinance.

You have that same cross-section, it looks like, in the phase 1C and two area, but haven't had modifications for that roadway design, the cross section. Even in the modification letter that we got today, that's not addressed. I think your response has been that you'll provide a phasing plan and address the Country Club Road improvements in the final plan, but those requirements are preliminary plan requirements in the ordinance. So we need to find some way to navigate that issue, I think, or it may be difficult to approve the preliminary plan until that's addressed.

Yeah, that's a good point. That needs to be nailed down at the preliminary level. And, to answer the question about that bend in the road, yeah, that is a problem area we came across when we were building the temporary road. From what I understand, there will be underdrains under that section of road. We know it's a bad section, so it'll be looked at in the final designs. You know, it just fills up with groundwater, which is a function of those wetlands at the end. So we'll see what's happening.

Yeah, Mike, we'll commit to modifying the plans to do what you ask. That's not gonna be an issue.

Yeah. And to respond to Mike, the intent is 1C is...

Can you put up the map again? Because you're talking 1C.

Mr. Long: Hold on one second.

Hilda Vazquez: Can you put up the map, please?

The intent is to build 1C first, and...

Excuse me. Can you put up 1C?

So the intent is to build 1C, and I think the intent is to build phase one and two of Country Club Road at once. Earlier in the project, we looked at only building phase one and phase two, but now... And correct me if I'm wrong, Mike, but I thought the entire phase one and two of Country Club Road was in the developer's agreement.

The one and two?

Mr. Long: Yeah. I thought both...

That developer's agreement has been modified or revised and looked at a number of times. Well, I'll double-check.

'Cause I think we're covered for the full length in the developer's agreement. We are. So I would prefer we work through all the phase two of Country Club Road with 1C, as we've responded in our comment letters, and work through that design and those comments.

Yeah. One time we talked about, and this may be ongoing conversation between us, is if you're gonna rebuild Country Club Road from one end of the project to the other, just like the temporary road was done all at one time, it would be preferable at least that we try to get it all done at one time.

I think we agree. Definitely agree. And the piece that we're... It's not on the agenda for tonight, but phase three has frontage opposite 1C as well, so that also kind of factors in. Again, I think the overall theme is that we wanna make sure that we get the improvements in. You know, if you wanna do more than you have to sooner than you have to, fine. If it's the other way around, then that could be a problem.

Clarity, Bud. Are you recommending, suggesting that when this is done, the water will no longer run across the road?

We're gonna try. We're gonna let mother nature deal with it. We're not gonna attempt to fix it.

When this project is all done, who will be the owner of this tract of land? 1C.

Unidentified speaker: It'll be the tenant.

Presiding officer: The tenant? Of which? You're building these in three separate campuses. There's one tenant for all of it. You mean the developer does it because they're selling it to the tenant, for him to sell. You're saying tenant. Tenant means rental.

Unidentified speaker: Well, they'll control it, is what I guess what I mean.

Presiding officer: But who's gonna still own the land? PAX-1?

Well, it's an entity by the name of...

Presiding officer: Carlisle...

Mr. Giorgione: Carlisle Development Partners.

Okay. Carlisle Development Partners. So they're gonna still own all the land. The tenants will rent to build.

Mr. Giorgione: Yes.

All right. So you got this piece of land here. What's that stoned area gonna be when it's done? Five, seven, six?

Unidentified speaker: Seven acres.

Presiding officer: Around seven acres. That gray area is seven acres. All right. And you're worried about thinking of what you're gonna do with it?

Unidentified speaker: No, we're not gonna do anything with it. We're gonna put it in the developer's agreement that it's not gonna be developed.

Presiding officer: Right. So I'm saying, there's not gonna be any of this piece of ground. I'm looking at this big flat area. We keep talking about the PPL substation on Bernheisel Bridge.

When they built that, for the community they built three ball fields. They're now gone because they needed the room for the substation. Probably 15, 20 years ago, when my wife was involved with Conard High School, we were approached about whether or not we'd wanna donate 20 acres of land for, I think it was some football program. And everywhere you look, there's soccer fields. And you're gonna give a bunch of money for recreation. Would you guys consider donating that to the community for athletic fields?

Well, you got a good point. We just recently talked about just restoring it back to its natural...

Right. But I'm saying after you went through all the work of making a flat place, instead of you going to the expense of putting it back to a hill, this could be something good for the community. Whether soccer fields, football fields.

Not anything we can answer tonight. We'd have to take that to the team.

Presiding officer: Well, that's what I'm saying.

Mr. Giorgione: We'll start that consideration.

You have to just look at that, because if you're gonna make that a field or something across, then you'd have to start maintaining your...

That's right. But I'm just saying, here's a... I'm not saying it's gonna happen. I'm just saying it maybe could happen.

Okay. We'll take that.

Good suggestion. I have a question here. You listed MRC cell. Am I just stupid or does everybody not know what an...

Managed release concept.

Unidentified commission member: A what?

Mr. Long: A managed release concept. So it's a... Bud or Mike, you guys talk about this better than I do sometimes.

This is the same stormwater basin type that's been used across this area.

Unidentified commission member: I understand now. I just didn't want the initial... Gotcha. They're trying to save ink.

That's a standard across DEP. Everybody uses MRC. Not just those two.

During construction, will there be lighting?

Lighting on this? There will not be any lighting installed. Any light might come from vehicles pulling on, but there will be no installed light poles or anything like that.

I think, are you talking about temporary lighting? I can see along the highway people work at night at a site like this.

We can't work at night on this site, so we wouldn't be able to install lights to work at night. So the answer is no. There's no lighting.

Well, there's lights. I know there's been work at night. You use those things with the cranes.

Generators. A question about the lighting. There's no temporary lights out there now.

What's on the building then that shines all night that has all the lights across the front with white lights, and then you've got the little magical green box that appeared the other day with all the green lights on and off?

Are they wall packs on the existing building?

They could be. Not that I can see at dark, so I don't know. I can ask and see what that is.

Unidentified commission member: Are they shielded? Ask if they're shielded.

Mr. Long: We'll see if they're shielded or not. I'm not sure what that means.

Fair enough. You don't know anything. Just ask. I can tell you. I show you pictures.

We'll find out.

He could actually talk to you about this right here. You make a question, and he don't have the answer.

So we've jumped from 1C, and you're applying for no temporary lighting during construction, correct? Is that what you're saying?

Mr. Long: Yes.

One other item on 1C, and then we're gonna jump to the last slide. So the NPDES and E&S hasn't been submitted yet. We are waiting to get through these comments, and we will be submitting those in the next couple of weeks. When we get past the next slide, if Mike wants to comment on it, but I want to comment on our reviews, the two recent review letters, review comments, that were taken care of. We're going to resubmit. We're gonna take some of the planning commission's recommendations on the restoration, which I think...

That's probably something that might need to come for final until we work through, you know, the question that Mr. Colon brought up and, you know, how are we gonna restore this and can we restore it to. So that's one thing I wanted to add. So yes, the NPDES and the E&S will be submitted in the next couple of weeks. We'll copy the township on that submission, so you're aware of that, but it will be for phase two and phase 1C at the same time. Just the last slide here. This is the community engagement. I know it came up a little bit tonight.

There's been some resident meetings. There was one a few weeks ago. There's a few this week, for the community around the site. The construction updates, the blasting has restarted approximately seven days from June 1st, and that is dependent on weather. I think Jim spoke about that some and Mike as well. You know, for construction updates, we're gonna have the PAX-1 website updated as we can for those updates when they become available. And then below there is the pax1campus.com, and that QR code also will take you to the PAX-1 website. And we can do the follow-up on that.

Yeah. I think there were a couple of other issues that you raised in the last meeting we haven't touched on yet. One of them was the reliability of the 500 kV lines at PPL. I spoke to PPL. I get a very technical response back from them on this. So I'm gonna paraphrase some of it, but, you know, basically he said there's been no outages on their transmission lines of 500 kV since 2018. I don't know why they picked that date, but that's part of the response. They said, while additional historical data can be requested, they indicated that the more meaningful measure is the overall reliability of the bulk electrical system and the standard under which it's planned and operated.

And then there's a whole paragraph about the bulk electrical system.

"The transmission system serving this area as part of the bulk electrical system is subject to rigorous planning, operating, and maintenance requirements established by the North American Electric Reliability Corporation and approved by the FERC and by PJM. These standards are designed to ensure reliable operation of the electrical grid, including the ability to withstand equipment outages and other system contingencies while maintaining service."

To expand, they said

"The transmission system is planned to satisfy applicable reliability criteria, including the ability to continually serve load following loss of a single transmission element, commonly referred to as an N-1 mitigation or contingency. As a result, in the unlikely event one of the lines were lost, there should not be an interruption in service."

They also offered the township, you know, if you wanted to talk to them directly about this, they're happy to have a conversation. I'm looking at you, Zach. Maybe if you wanted to talk to them, they would be happy to talk to them. But I reached out to them directly on that. I think that another issue that was raised at the last meeting is about the equipment in the data center buildings, who's responsible to replace it, recycle it, and that's gonna be a tenant responsibility.

I think we've talked about this in previous meetings. The tenant equipment inside the buildings has a useful life. And as technology evolves, that equipment will be recycled and replaced. Fortunately, there are companies the tenant tells us that focuses on recycling and reusing materials in data centers, particularly the metals in the equipment, like the chips. They are recycled, and the tenant will continue to contract with them for these purposes while they're on the property. And I think that was the two bigger issues at the end of the meeting, and I think the other ones we all covered.

Can I ask the question about the power? The thing is the grid itself, the bulk grid rarely ever goes down. And they're building redundancy now across Tracy's property as well back to Erie as a backup. So as far as chips go, something you may have seen on the news this week that a Pennsylvania company is ramping up production, building on photonic chips, which do not use current anymore. They use light, which requires significantly less cooling. So that technology is evolving quickly, which will probably be in place before you guys get up and running.

Quite possibly. I hear in Pennsylvania. There's obviously a lot of stories now that certainly the tenant community, the Big Five are looking at all kinds of new technologies and I think it's gonna evolve pretty quickly.

I know you guys have been talking about most of these buildings will be upgradeable even to the liquid-based coolant, Lakeville or whatever it is, when that technology gets online, 'cause, you know, some of this nature, they've been using that for years to cool AC drives and stuff like that. So it's an evolving technology very quickly. I have one additional question I'd ask you about. You know, when you guys are obviously going through the process now, you're reducing water tanks. But I'd ask about what your real estimated annual water usage is gonna be. It's not the four hundred thousand gallon a day cap.

Yeah. So we think that our hydrologist and tenants would tell us probably somewhere around twenty-two million gallons. The storage is gonna be close to thirty million. And that is why I said to you they're building additional capacity to make sure that they don't run out of water. And again, the key is the four hundred thousand. We can use less water, we can take less water, we can put less in storage, but we can't take more. That can't happen.

Yeah. As it evolves, you know, when I build factories, I went down every utility, and I calculated all the energies I was going to be using, the water usage, the sewer, everything I had to go down. And I had a number. I usually pad it a little bit. And I'm sure you guys are doing the same thing. But what I'm trying to get to is what you really expect to use average on its day, a normal day spread out through the entire system.

Yeah. So, average on a day, I mean... I would say the answer that the tenant would say to that is we're gonna be providing four hundred thousand. That's what we're designing for. We're designing for that we're gonna use that. Now, a bunch of that's gonna be, most of it's all gonna be used in July and August, probably the hottest months, and they're gonna draw it out of those tanks, you know, in order to meet that demand.

But in January, February, they're not gonna use hardly any of it. So their usage in July and August, you know, it could peak up to six, seven hundred thousand gallons a day. But they would be using the four hundred thousand plus out of the tanks as well. Now, January and February, they're not gonna draw nothing except to fill tanks.

Right. And the reason you have the tanks too is that you don't have a situation where you say, "Well, we're gonna average four hundred, but we're gonna draw a million a day in July and August," and then that stresses the entire system. That's not happening.

I know your tenant's calculating all this out, but I'm curious to get your...

Do you wanna do questions now or do you wanna go through the waivers?

What do you guys prefer?

Let's do the waivers.

Okay. You want me to run through or do you wanna run through them, Mike?

You guys do it. You know, chime in and say yes or no.

Okay. Let's start with two. I'm not gonna read the entire... I'm just gonna read, 'cause like I said, all these waivers are the same waivers we've requested, so I'm not gonna go into all the detail.

1. Section 501.A.2, plan scale. Asking for the scale modification.

2. Section 501.A.6, map scale. It's the location map scale, not to exceed one inch over thousand. We're asking for modification for that.

3. Sections 501.C.19, 303.J.12 and 303.K.12, the metes and bounds for the easements. We ask that we defer this to the final, once all the final utility and stormwater design is completed, so then we can save some time for everybody, review engineers and ourselves, and paper, to defer that to final.

Mike, this is the one we... Well, no, this is not this phase, but the next phase, this is when it comes up.

4. Section 703.A.10 is the curb and sidewalk along Country Club Road. We removed the pavement under drain from this one, and we added the note that the sidewalk is deferred. I forget the exact text of that note we put on the plan.

It essentially says that, within notification by the township, the developer will install sidewalk along Country Club Road within six months.

That should stay then.

Mike (HRG): Yeah.

The next one is the road improvements. This is the depressed driveway curb waiver that we're asking for.

5. Section 703.I.4, the depressed driveway curb.

6. Section 707, sidewalk. This is for the waiver of the sidewalk for the interior of the site. We are showing sidewalk, though, in some of the areas on the site for pedestrians. But this is pertaining to these streets. So we are asking for the waiver not to require the sidewalks everywhere, and this was granted as well on campus one.

EIA is a modification to, I'll read the section:

7. Sections 718.D.3.a, 718.D.4.a, 718.D.4.b, 718.D.4.c and 718.D.4.d, and these are all plan-scale modifications. The next one we had not needed. It was dealing with plans and elevations, which we were deferring to the final. If you remember in the final one, we supplied elevation views.

8. Section 303.J.3, retention basin slopes. This is the not to be steeper than four to one, and the required slope for the base and bottom is two percent. This one is dealing with the basin side and bottom slopes. This was granted on 1B as well.

9. Section 303.H.17, dewatering. The township has the requirement of forty-eight hours. The DEP allows seventy-two hours. This is also one of those that was granted on phase 1A and 1B.

10. Section 303.B.2, infiltration of stormwater. This is a modification. This is in relation to the MRC basins. We're proposing MRC basins on this part of the site. I believe they're all MRC basins, and I don't think this campus has any infiltration basins.

And I'll read through the last three. These are items that we addressed in the final plan. They're deferrals.

11. Section 302.A.13, it's the construction detail of the inlets.

12. Sections 718.B.2 and 718.B.3, final landscape plan. This is also a deferral. So as we work through the final design, we can provide final landscaping.

13. Section 303.H.12, geotechnical MRC certification. We asked for this deferral to the final as well.

So that is all of them for phase two. Any questions on those or any clarification, Mike, at this time?

What were those last few listed as?

Unidentified commission member: They were on his letter.

Mike (HRG): I gave you a copy of it. Okay. Got it. I don't have technical objections to any of the modifications that Nick just outlined, and I agree that for the most part, these are the same kinda non-applicable situations that we've seen on the prior plans. I will though reiterate the thing that I said earlier about Country Club Road. We're in a bit of a limbo right now because we don't have a plan that meets the ordinance with regard to the design of Country Club roadway improvements. We don't have modification requests for it, and we don't have a deferral to final plan for it, and it is a preliminary plan requirement.

We could... I mean, we would like to, but you have the plans. You have the previous plans, but because of the phase one and phase two...

There's two aspects of Country Club Road that are problematic. One is the timing, which I talked about earlier, that if you wanna do things a little bit earlier than you must, then that's not a problem. The other part is the design of Country Club Road itself. The design that's submitted doesn't meet the ordinance by the letter of the ordinance. It's consistent with what was submitted in phase 1A, in which we agreed to modifications on phase 1A. Those modifications haven't been submitted for phase 1C and two, and we're at a deferral until final plan gets submitted.

So could we proceed with a conditional recommendation from this board that the plans be amended consistent with what we've agreed to here at the meeting for final approval? I'll ask the board. So you would make a recommendation and condition the issues that Mike's raising on Country Club Road, which we have no objections to, we meet those requirements.

We're all in agreement with that.

That'd be good.

Yeah, and I think we can work through it. We got the height of the berm.

We can work through that. It just has to be addressed in some way. Because what we have right now doesn't quite work. If this board's good with it in the deferral, then I think that's all.

Okay. Deferral or conditions. That's the waivers on two. We wanna go through 1C.

Mike, why are we jumping back and forth? Let's finish one, and then finish the other one.

That's fine. I started with saying we were gonna do both, and you're right. Let's do that. We did our presentation on two. We went through the waivers. Why don't we open it up for any further questions you have on phase two?

And let's just get the engineer's comments, if there are any on two. Phase two, Mike has some comments.

Phase two is a pretty short list at this point. This is the fourth time that we've reviewed phase two. The other phase is only the second time. We talked about pavement base drain, and we talked about the modifications, so I'll kind of skip over those. Under zoning, we're looking for some additional detail in the grading, a few places, especially as it pertains to ADA access into the building and making sure that we can maintain proper ADA access but also have proper drainage. So we need some more detail on the grading there. That's really both of the zoning comments.

Subdivision and land development: PA DEP sewage planning module, which was the first item we talked about. Subdivision and land development comments two and three... I'm sorry, two is one of the waiver requests, which was, I believe, the depressed curb for a driveway, which really just doesn't make sense for a driveway of this scale. There's a requirement to either dedicate ten percent of land area or provide the disturbed acre fee for parks and rec fee. So that hasn't happened yet, so that's still a comment. Retaining walls. We did see design for retaining walls, but that can be part of the final plan.

And that I think ultimately was determined did relate to the building permit? It does require building permit. We've issued one on A.

Mr. Giorgione: Number three, though, Mike, the rec fee in lieu, they've agreed to provide the rec fee in lieu of giving us the acreage. That would be provided at final.

That's not a preliminary plan requirement.

Yeah. We can move that to final plan. Just as long as it does happen before final. Environmental impact assessment: let's see, five comments related to the waivers of plan scale. Because of the size of the site, we are fine with mapping at a different scale to depict the various features on the site. There is one table in the EIA that doesn't match the PCSM narrative, so we're asking for that to be updated. I think it's probably just something that got changed or refined as the design was developed. Stormwater management: they need to get an NPDES permit.

And then there are a few things that were subject to the waivers, which are slopes in the side of the basin, the dewatering time of forty-eight hours versus seventy-two hours, the use of MRC cells, and final verification from DEP on their acceptance of the MRC basins, which would be part and parcel for the NPDES permit approval. And then there's a couple of features that are missing on one of the profiles. Probably just a CAD error. Country Club roadway improvements, talked about that at length. Items to be included in the developer's agreement: stormwater operation and maintenance.

A deed restriction to make sure that that O&M carries forward to any future owners. O&M for PA Data Drive. Update the developer's agreement for any off-site improvements to Country Club Road. And then lastly, items to be addressed in the final plan: sign and execute the operation and maintenance agreement and record it. Include a deed restriction to make sure that future owners are bound by those O&M requirements. Provide details on the storm profiles where we have a non-standard inlet box. Some of the pipes are big enough that a two-by-four box won't work, so we want them to show us the size of the boxes that will.

Provide metes and bounds on the drainage easements, which was one in Nick's letter. Provide specifications and details for all of the pipes, inlets, tops, catch basins, et cetera. All the material used to build the stormwater system, we wanna see the specs on. Provide a final landscape plan. The ordinance has different requirements for preliminary versus a final landscape plan. So at the final plan stage, the final requirements will apply. Provide financial security for all the on-site improvements. That process starts by the developer's team providing a cost estimate, which we would then review. Provide an updated sound study, including any changes associated with the final design, if there are any.

And that's everything in our review.

Okay. No objections. We'll deal with all those issues.

Does the county have any comments?

I just have one general question at this time regarding the waiver for sidewalks along Country Club Road. If that waiver is granted, is there also the note placed on the plan that at a future time, upon notification, the landowner would install sidewalks? Just wanna make sure. Okay. So sticking with phase two then...

I think that was my only other comment I wanted to focus on for phase two. I did have a couple questions on phase one saved.

So I know we have a couple of issues that you raised at the meeting tonight. I will make sure that we respond to those, to the township, before this matter goes before the supervisors, but I'll also make sure that you get that response too, and we can discuss it at the next meeting as well. So I have the issues with temperature of the influent water, I have the issue of the delivery schedule for the diesel, I have the issue of considering donating the land for 1C, and then the third issue is what are the lighting and the issue with currently on the site. So we'll get information on those and get that to you.

Yeah. Well, I think that's everything. Just for the scale, to build those generators, I know they're gonna come on in phases over the years, 319 tanker loads of that. So just trying to understand, that's the magnitude of, so what the frequency is of these things. Is it once a week, two a week?

All right, we'll find out.

Any further questions on two?

I think we'll move on to two to decide, or decide we're not gonna move on to.

So just a law here. I've asked in the past, I know Charlie Courtney kind of addressed my question in the past. He said there wasn't a major issue with it, but we hadn't considered it. The adjoining properties on Country Club, have you guys discussed any more with a formal plan to offer a fair market price to those individuals, if they're so inclined?

We're discussing that internally, and we've had some discussions with some of the neighbors. So that issue is, is long gone.

Because I did hear that mentioned earlier again, where people were saying they were directed to talk to you, and I just didn't know if there's a way to get like a formal process to have that as a possibility. Because I think everyone's recognizing this is a very large disturbance for especially those people.

We recognize that as well.

All right. I'm just hoping that moves along. Thank you.

I mean, any of the neighbors that are here that live on Country Club Road, if they need my business card before I leave tonight, just ask me for it and they can have it. We can start discussion.

Why don't you just push them on the table, we'll come gather.

Why talking only about Country Club Road resident? PAX have resident behind, the Meadow and Country Manor. We are affected too. Both person in this table coming here talking about what the PAX have around, but never coming with the blueprints, show where's the pipe for sewer, for water. You're supposed to come here with blueprints or whatever because they have a lot of paper in the table. That hole is close. Anybody know about the sewer in here? Where the sewer situated in the PAX? Talking about 1C, 1B, phase two, phase one, but never show nothing.

Nothing. The resident don't see anything, any paper, only what show in the TV, in the screen.

What don't you understand about the sewer water?

You know what? Only know me, a lot of people. Any resident here know where is the main pipe for PAX-1? The main one.

The water or the sewer?

The water and sewer. Some resident here know in what building, what phase is situated the main pipe for water and sewer? Anybody? Somebody know? No. Because always it he in the table talking about what they putting around the tree, the fence, whatever, but never coming with a blueprint and show the sewer connection, the water connection.

So does the planning commission want them to show the general layout of where the water...

They've already showed where the water line is. They've relocated it, the blueprint, when they're through the property.

We wanna see the blueprint. Well, they're laying everything out. The running connection, because PAX-1 have a pipe cross to the creek. We wanna know if PAX-1 connect in this line because that line cross to the creek and connect to the Middlesex Township line. We wanna know exactly the blueprint. We wanna see the blueprint. I wanna see the blueprint.

I can address this. Give me the microphone.

I think there is some confusion in your thinking. So what I'm saying, the sewer from this project is going to go to a pump station, then it will be pumped down Country Club Road from the site all the way to the Harrisburg Pike.

Where does it freeze?

We have a lane right there.

I'm telling you where the sewer flows. It flows down to the Harrisburg Pike. It does not flow to the treatment plant at Country Manor that serves the Meadows and Country Manor and the Ridings. That is a private sewer plant that's not owned by Middlesex Township. So the sewage flows to a pumping station. It's pumped down to Harrisburg Pike to the main, then it flows to the Carlisle Regional Sewer Treatment Plant off of North Middlesex Road, at North Middlesex Road. The water for this site, we already explained, was relocated to the eastern side of the property. It's a 10-inch water main. It existed before this property was developed, and it does serve Country Manor and Meadows, and the Rid-- well, not the Ridings, just Country Manor and Meadows.

So I'm not sure what questions you have as far as you wanna see exact details of where the sewer and water lines are. I'm telling you in a general way, that's exactly...

The main pipe coming to what building? 1B, phase one, what building close to the creek?

There's three campuses. Each of the campus flows to a pumping station, then the sewage is pumped. They're gonna dig up along Country Club Road all the way from the site to Route 11 and under Route 11, replace the entire pipe all the way down to the sewer main, and then it flows to the sewer treatment plant. It's very simple, and I'm sorry if you don't understand what I'm saying.

No, I have a paper in my hands. The paper said, talking about somebody have a conversation by email. I don't know if the company, the PAX, the email what I get by Right to Know talking about the pipe under the creek. What pipe that conversation talking about?

The PAX-1 is not installing any pipe under the Conodoguinet Creek. Is that what you're talking about?

The conversation is about the blasting.

If you wanna meet with me sometime, but I don't know what you're talking about. There's no plan to run any pipe under the Conodoguinet Creek. It's already existing. The water does flow under the creek already.

The paper what I have talking about blasting because they have to connect a pipe cross the creek under the water. I have that paper by Right to Know.

Thank you. I've tried to answer you.

When they rerouted that pipe work, they did reconnect to the pipe that goes under the creek. Yes, but they didn't install any pipe.

They have to blasting because they have to reconnect the...

No, it's already connected.

Hilda Vazquez: It's connected to the small stream.

Presiding officer: It's already connected.

They moved it here. It's a pipe that the conversation talking about a pipe 30 feet down, you know. That conversation. I have that conversation. But at that time...

The water line was put under the creek, what, 30 years ago?

No. I'm not talking 30 years ago. I'm talking the conversation by email said, "I'm waiting for the permit for MP whatever, because we have to start blasting. We need connect the water under the creek."

Well, whatever the paper says, I'm telling you the real fact is the water line was put under the creek 30 years ago.

No, I'm not talking 30 years ago.

And it's still there, and they moved the water line from the middle of this property to the eastern boundary, and then reconnected the line that goes under the water. And that's how it is.

That conversation I received by Right to Know and talking about blasting and PAX-1, the conversation is clearly, the conversation said, "We need the permit. We waiting for the permit because we need start blasting. We need putting the pipe under the creek."

Well, it was never...

Any further questions on phase two? Thank you. Any further? Okay.

Can we, for you guys, can we just clarify something with the company about the blasting notifications please? And it might need to go... Do you know where? We might need to follow up. Like, they said they were gonna start a robo call so we would be notified since we can't hear the sirens about when the blasting, like, a window when it will occur, and I just wanna find out, like... We got a follow-up response email, but it didn't indicate when they're gonna start that up, and I think sooner rather than later would be good, and then how we can get on that robo call list.

I brought the email just for clarification so I see it. But so that we can get on that call list to see when...

Unidentified speaker: He's gonna ask them.

I'll find out the answers when I go to get the information to you. I don't know the answer tonight. If anybody's going to the meeting tomorrow night or this week, they should raise that issue. They might have a better answer. But we'll get an answer.

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Giorgione: You're welcome.

Okay. Let's continue phase two. So no more questions on phase two?

We can make the motion to approve, but we have to put a condition in there for what? Final preliminary, or they have to have the road planned or something?

Yeah, the Country Club roadway design and the schedule of construction would be deferred until final plans.

Unidentified commission member: That's actually in your comments that you had there. It is?

Mike (HRG): Yeah, it is. Not that exact...

Unidentified commission member: Under developers, right?

Not deferral, but that it needs to be done.

Yeah, let me get you the exact language and send it out.

So the last page?

Unidentified commission member: Both sides.

Unidentified commission member: There's a motion saying...

No, it's not. The comment that we have on Country Club Road is

"The applicant has indicated that a roadway improvement phasing strategy will be prepared prior to the approval of the phase two final plan. Unless a modification is granted, roadway improvement designs are a preliminary plan requirement."

Mike (HRG): So if you were to defer it until final plan, then that would address the issues. But that wouldn't automatically be included in the motion if you're up to my letter, because my letter doesn't say defer it to final plan. It said it's an issue that's outstanding in preliminary plan.

Would they recommend an additional deferral under the waivers then? Is that what you're saying? Would that work?

Yeah. That would... If they recommended that it be, it would be a deferral to final to the Country Club Road improvement. That would work. You hear what we're saying though?

Yes. You defer the, just defer the...

Recommend that you add to the waiver list as a deferral that these final designs for Country Club Road to the final two.

Yeah.

Yeah. So do we list all the waivers individually or should this...

Unidentified speaker: You gotta do waivers. You gotta do both.

Yeah, you can do them as a group if you wanna.

How many are there? Are there 10? One, two, three.

Don't use our list because we haven't updated this one.

I got them numbered here. Might be objection if we use the link.

No, it doesn't. There's actually one that's removed. So leave them as part of the Livic letter dated June 19th, with the one removed and then the addition of the deferral.

Yeah, so you could just reference this letter if you want to count them. June 13th.

And then you would suggest adding another one with the deferral.

With that being said, I'll make a motion to approve the preliminary plan for phase two, subject to the...

Unidentified speaker: This 12 waivers.

Unidentified commission member: 13 waivers. Well, the first one would just be for the waivers. Just the waivers. Sorry. Recommend approval of waivers. I make a motion we approve the modifications on the Livic letter dated June 19th, 2026. There are 13 modification requests. Yeah, almost forgot. So yeah, I would recommend we approve the 13 listed on the letter. And also deferral.

Wait a minute. And Wes wanted to put on the request that they consider natural gas instead of diesel. Does that go in the waivers?

Unidentified speaker: No, on your plan review.

Presiding officer: That's what we got next. All right. Then we'll add the deferral.

And also, I guess we put the deferral of the final designs, the designs Country Club Road, move it to the final design.

Well, I have a question about the road. I'm going to assume that you guys are going to widen the road to improve it. So how much room are you going to steal from the people who live on Country Club Road? I mean, I just bought my house last year, and I really didn't like this, 'cause I would have never bought on Country Club Road had I known this was going in.

The roadway design stays within the existing right of way. So the paved footprint gets a little bit wider, but it's all within the legal right of way that's owned by the township. In terms of the width, what we have so far, and that we will have to really nail down the final design, is two 12-foot lanes, so 24-foot travel lane, and four-foot shoulders on each side.

What is it now, Mike?

I think it's about 22 feet total.

And this is in final project. Sounds like pavement will be a foot wider on each side. Plus a shoulder.

Unidentified commission member: The pavement will be double from the sides of the roads outside.

It's like 50 feet across.

Unidentified commission member: The pavement will be two feet wide. No additional land...

Pavement will be about five feet wider on each side. One foot of lane and four foot of shoulder, each side.

Unidentified commission member: Oh, you're gonna pave the shoulder?

Mike (HRG): Yeah.

Okay, paved shoulder. Then she can bike it on here.

And on the other side now? Same right of way? Property is not taking any of it. Right of way, same right of way.

Yeah, correct. It all fits within the existing right of way. The existing right of way there is 60 feet wide.

Unidentified commission member: Even how the road is wide?

Mike (HRG): No, I'm sorry. The right of way that they're going to give us on their own property is 60 feet wide. I said that wrong. So it's not on the other side there. They're not taking any land on the other side. Yeah, sorry, I said that wrong.

But are they extending it out where the monitors are and Gene's house and stuff, or just from their corner down?

The roadway is getting widened across the entire frontage of the project.

Unidentified commission member: So from Gene's house.

Mike (HRG): And then off-site, as part of the developer's agreement, they will reconstruct the entire length of Country Club Road from Bernheisel Bridge to 11, but at its existing width, same footprint.

Yeah, they're gonna rebuild it.

In what, six years?

Mr. Grove: Six years from now? Is it ongoing?

When the project's completed.

Mr. Grove: When the project is completed.

We also have, as part of the developer's agreement, a requirement that they do a monthly assessment of the roadway condition. And if it falls below a certain threshold, which is a technical standard, that they have to present a plan to the township to fix it, to get it back above the required number, and they have to do that on an ongoing basis.

I see. And then when it's all done, they'll do full reconstruction.

Those would be temporary repairs on a monthly basis, if needed. But when everything is done, they're going to rebuild it, is what we as a township has asked for in the improvement agreement. Did that answer your question?

So it'll maintain in front of your property the same way.

Okay. Do we take a public comment yet, or do we save that for after?

We have a motion.

Mike (HRG): About the waivers? Do we have something about the waivers?

Unidentified commission member: No, it's not about the waivers. The motion, what's happening?

Unidentified commission member: I second.

It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor, say, "Aye."

Presiding officer: Those nay? Motion carried.

Earl? So you got something, Earl? You got a question? Earl? Are we gonna stay on two, or is this about two or is this on the general thing? Josh's house. Yeah. So let us finish up on two.

Okay. Now we're ready for the main event. But before we would leave public comment, I believe, on two. Correct?

We are at two. Are you on a question on phase two, or are you just general questions?

Earl Beam: General questions.

Presiding officer: Okay, go ahead.

One of the first things is the height of the berm going across from our houses right now. Okay, they've been working on this forever, but you can't even see the mountain from the property anymore. I mean, you used to be able to go out and look across the mountain at things. Now how high is this berm gonna be?

I can tell you how high it is in front of my house.

It's this simple. If you look, our office side, look down where it's flat down below where the berm is, I bet it's 50 feet high from that flat to the top of that berm right now. Not the road, I'm talking there. I don't care what it is on the other side. I'm concerned about my side. What ugly thing I have to look at every day, and listen to the machinery over there, listen to it dump, and have the dust blowing across. So somebody should know how high this thing's gonna be.

Yeah. The berm is around 12 feet high when it's finished. I'm not sure if that's a stockpile or...

The eastern end of that berm, Mark and I looked at it some time ago, is 25 to 35 feet high.

It's 12 feet above the center of Country Club Road. That's what they're building it.

But you have it higher now than what it's gonna be.

Yeah, it's not final condition there.

Correct. The finished grade, so if you look at the finished grade from the bottom of the berms at the top, if I remember Mark and I looking at it, at that end, it's 25 to 35 feet high.

Earl, are you concerned about the large stockpile that's still in the center?

No, no. I'm talking about the berm. The berm. Right behind the fence. So he just said the finished berm's gonna be 12 feet. Right now, it's higher than that. I drove by, and I figured they just made it higher for you guys doing construction to try to block some of the sound. Is that what you're up to?

Unidentified speaker: Oh, is that what you thought? Well, he was just saying that's why.

Okay. The second question is, you said you have a bond on Country Club Road.

Not yet, but we're... Right now, we have a temporary bond.

Okay. Here's my question. Right now with heavy, heavy trucks, they're trucking almost like they're coming up Bernheisel Bridge Road. Those trucks are coming down and then right as the Middlesex Township start, off down over the hill, coming up from the power plant.

Unidentified speaker: From Bernheisel Bridge?

Earl Beam: Yes. Those heavy trucks are coming up that road, whether it's a PPL truck or dump trucks, coming across Green Hill and now down Country Club Road. I thought you stated that the trucks were supposed to come off Route 11.

The trucks for this project are to come off of a left hand. It's my understanding from attending some of those construction meetings, some of those trucks are not for this project. They are PP&L trucks, or they're PP&L delivering material. They're not Whiting-Turner's trucks. They're not Liberty's trucks. And PP&L basically said, "We're delivering this off of Bernheisel Bridge Road." And essentially, am I right, PP&L said, "We can do whatever we want." Did I understand that correctly?

So who's responsible for the road?

It's a township road. So if PP&L is using that to deliver materials for this project, but they're PP&L-authorized and not part of Whiting-Turner's project, then PP&L needs to bond the roads.

I watch them make a turn. Every day I see these trucks going around there and they can't make the turn.

We understand. This was brought up at one of the site construction meetings. So all I'm doing now is I'm hearing it again, and I'm looking at Zach as the roadmaster, PPL should be contacted to make sure that they bond that section of road.

The last time we brought up there was direction to the cell tower or something.

Oh, yeah, Turner's property. But I think they're past that. This is the activity that's done. Zach, the signs aren't up either. The speed limit signs aren't working again.

You guys pulled them like way in. You're talking about the ones on the property for the data center?

On Country Club Road. The flashing...

Like, the signs are moved so close to the entrance way. What does it matter? By that point, they're already doing 60 miles an hour. I'm not kidding.

Yeah, and that's not a joke. I mean, I've seen people come racing up and down Country Club Road, and they've got to be doing 50, 55 in a 35. Where is the cop?

All right. Recently there have been 80 tri-axle trucks this past week paving at Cumberland Preserve, and they come up Country Club Road primarily from the Harrisburg Pike. So you may have seen those. There's an additional day of paving yet on that project.

Yeah, but they don't come by my house.

Mr. Grove: No, they're not coming to your house.

Unidentified resident: That's what I'm saying, we would still have...

So what you're saying is the flashing speed limit sign...

The signs are working, and they've pulled them close. I don't know when they got moved, right? But they're much closer to the entrance way of the construction, so that's not helpful.

Yeah, I didn't even see them. I was looking for them. I didn't see them. I noticed them initially.

I noticed them yesterday, but they aren't on.

Maybe you're going less than 35 miles an hour.

They have not been on for the last week.