Monday, May 11, 2026

Let's get started. I call the meeting to order. And we'll start with the Pledge of Allegiance.

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Okay. Thank you. Mark, I think we need to have a way to have these meetings outside when we've got such nice weather like this. That was just a joke to warm up the crowd. A couple of them. So the usual routine. I see some new faces. I see some that have been here for a while. Thanks everybody for making it today.

Microphone, Tom.

Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks to everybody for coming out tonight. I do see some new faces along with some that have been here a while. It's a lot for if you, if you haven't, if you don't have some of the background, sometimes we get into the details and it might be a little bit difficult to follow. We'll try to give you, the newer folks, some background as we get into the details. The way we do this is we take public comment at the beginning, preferably for things that are not on the agenda. The only agenda items that we have today are related to the data center.

So if there are public comments for something other than the data center, now is the time to take them. If you have comments related to the data center project, then the way we've found it works the best is to have the discussion and the presentation from the developers, and then if you have questions or wanna make a statement, that's a good time to do that afterwards. So with that, maybe I should also say the way we handle this is that for public comments, there's a microphone over here that is helpful if you can go to, state your name and try to keep it within three minutes or so.

Mainly so we can manage our time here. So with that, do we have any public comment not related to the data center?

Good afternoon, member of the board. I express a big concern regarding the transparency and legality of the recent action affecting Country Manor West. For six years, I have documented and reported to Mark Carpenter multiple violation, violation of ordinance and residents' living condition, include a water supply problem, sewer, drain, fuelers, and the presence of abandoned units. The zoning officer response has always been the alleged lack of jurisdiction because it's a private property. However, we know with alarm that the ordinance updated in September twenty twenty-five appear to have been designated to included these very violations from the enforcement framework. Even more concerning in this rezoning to R4 and the PAX-1 project.

This change were made without proper notification to residents, raising serious questions about due process. Based on technical documentation and the Cumberland County Register of Property, there are significant inconsistencies, lack of technical clarity. The record does not specific the total square footage of the Country Manor West parcel, limit itself only the office structure. Wastewater, in infrastructure terms, a treatment plan is mentioned on an area of one point four seven acres, and dimension that require immediate technician verification by the municipality to ensuring that in compliance with environment and public health standard. Why did the new Middlesex Township ordinance eliminate all the code compliance violation I have been reporting against Country Manor West for six years, record of which existing at Telemundo Philadelphia?

Can you guarantee under oath that the documentation supporting the R4 rezoning and the PAX-1 project is complete, transparent, and does not omit essential cadastral data? Today, I've been in the Cumberland County property, and I found inconsistent documentation for Country Manor West. Like, they have the owner, they have a twenty million loan by the property. That qualify for R4? The paper what I found too is for UCC financial statement under a resident, like a resident have to pay a money for a furnace putting in in the mobile home park. The resident don't have to pay nothing under the parcel number. That's inconsistent in the record.

Why in the property record don't specific the fee for the property, only two thousand two zero one fee if the property have one thirteen acres? That record have some problems, like the employee in property Cumberland County tell me. For record, I will submit the complaint for the general inspector for Pennsylvania and request verify that property record, because probably they have more inconsistent, because the information is not clear. Like the paper of the utility appear the name under the name of a resident for Bernheisel Bridge Road, and I'm talking today with the lady. She have eighty-five years old, and she tell me she don't have nothing with Country Manor West and any PPL utility, and this paper specifically say that she and her husband made a transaction with PPL Utility for the utility property.

Definitely, Mark Carpenter, do you verify exactly what the Country Manor West record have it, if the record is right? Because all information what I found, and I can found more, is inconsistent, and my community don't qualify for R4 because it's not in good condition. Thank you.

Thank you. I know Mark, I guess, you've been dealing with this. Anything you wanna comment on?

No. I'll be talking to the attorney.

Okay. Do we have any other public comment not related to our agenda items?

Okay. I believe we do not yet have draft minutes from the twenty-seventh of April, so nothing to review there. We'll move on to TPF twenty-five dash twenty-six, which is phase two. Maybe before we get into the details, we can... First of all, I think these are workshop informational meetings. We're not planning to take any action tonight.

Correct.

Probably the first time we've seen phase two, and then we've got TPF twenty-six dash ten, one C. I think it may be the first time we've seen that as well. Correct. So then for those that might be newer, if you could, or one of you can give us just a super high-level overview of the different phases, and then we can jump into phase two.

Sure. Nick Long here, pinch-hitting for Justin tonight. So yeah, phase two, one C are on the agenda tonight, and bear with me. We're having a little bit of difficulty finding the... Work through this one little bit. Oh, we can't see it now.

Yeah. Just by way of explanation. So if you recall, phase one A was, is the PPL facilities. Final plan's been approved for that. Phase one B, a preliminary plan has been approved for that. That was the first phase with buildings, data center buildings. Phase one C is a construction laydown area. And phase two is the second phase with data center buildings. So like you said, we'll walk through the plans tonight. You know, we've presented in prior meetings a lot of data center information. You know, we're gonna walk through the plans as a typical land development plan tonight, and then we'll see you at another meeting.

Well, I meant to look at it before this meeting, and I didn't. But you have rec... I think at the last meeting you mentioned an informational site, website that's available. Correct. Could you remind us what is the URL of that?

Yeah. It's www PAX-1, the numeric one, campus dot com.

Okay. And the reason I mention that is for those that haven't been here the whole time, that might be useful for you to catch up with the PAX-1.

Yeah, PAX, P-A-X, the numeric one, campus dot com.

Thank you. Okay. Thanks, Charlie. We'll try and get through this with the technical difficulties aside. So yeah, as Charlie mentioned, one A, we received final approval last Wednesday from the Board of Supervisors. And that is this cyan or the light blue color. This is the PPL substation phase. And then one B, which we received preliminary approval last Wednesday, is the first campus with the data center buildings. And we're here to discuss campus two, phase two, which is the blue, the darker blue, that contains data center buildings. And then phase one C, which is the yellow, which is a construction laydown area.

Just to orient everybody, so Interstate eighty-one here is at the bottom of the screen. Country Club Road is this pinkish color, kind of bisecting phase three and phase one C. You have the Conodoguinet that circles the one B and the phase two and three. And then the PPL right of way

with the transmission lines that cut through the eastern half of the site.

So from that, I'll move on to campus two. So this is the existing conditions plan for campus two, and this is the paid boundary. And I'll draw your attention to this blue area down here. That is the current construction laydown for the PPL laydown, which we received approval for late in the summer last year. So that's where you see some of the construction trailers, and then the main entry to the site remaining in this area. So that was approved last year, just to orient everybody with how phase two sits on the land.

And then here is campus two. You can see the five buildings, the data centers, and then you have the security entrance out front. The proposed roundabout for PA Data Drive, which was approved during the phase one A plans. You can see the blue, which I'll mention is, they're blue for illustration purposes but are not actually containing water. They're stormwater basins. And you'll see the Conodoguinet here in the rear with the forested and riparian buffer area, wetlands area, in the floodplain zone. Any questions to this?

To what you just described? I'm looking at the buildings with the generators. And they all face inward except for that very last building where the generators are exposed out instead of being in.

Being in, correct. Yeah, so we are proposing a sound and screening wall in the rear for that rear building, to help with... So our, also mentioned that we submitted the complete campus sound study with phase one B that was approved last week. That campus one B plan included the entire campus, not just campus one.

Yeah, so Nick, if you recall for phase one B, there were two buildings that had, where the generators were on the west side of the buildings, closest to the creek and...

They were the smaller buildings.

Correct.

They're the buildings with the fans on top of the roof.

Right. And those generators couldn't be put on the other side because of interference with it.

With the airflow. So any time the generator is running, the air intake for the buildings is on the front side. So if the generator would be running and any of that exhaust, it might get intake through the fresh air on the building into a confined space for the employees.

Why couldn't you put the air intake on the other side of the building? Yeah. Flip it around.

That's just the design of the buildings.

The intakes are... I'm not satisfied with your answer. Why not flip the building?

This building here? Yeah. Because of the fresh air intakes on this side for the interior buildings.

Yeah, so I think it's the same issue as the...

Fresh air intakes on the second building, the one she's pointing to.

Yeah.

Correct. I think the last one.

It's not here for the wind. I'm trying to see all that.

And just out of curiosity. Oh, sorry. This small building.

Yeah, that one. So that's a building where the water treatment and the sewer, and it's all the water and sewer run through that building. So when the water is treated, it's brought onto campus. And then there's security in the front, visitor entry access point for the campus, or the secondary access here onto the northeast side.

So this is for the entire development?

Just for campus two. Just campus two. Phase two. So I'll add too that a lot of the questions that we answered and a lot of the questions came up through phase one are consistent. This is a consistent plan with phase one. Other than five buildings, campus one had six buildings, and we did have, as Ms. Eppley mentioned, that there was two smaller buildings.

And during the phase one B discussion, there were, I think it was the ones on the left if we're looking at it, buildings that were older design. I'm not sure I'm using the right terminology there. Does any of that apply here in phase two?

No. Because of the sequencing, the smaller two buildings is the supply chain until phase two when we build, the supply chain would catch up to the demand.

Okay.

Let me ask a very simple question that should have been asked some time ago. And this is because some people are confused by it. Why do we have phase one A, B, and C, and then phase two and three? Why not one through five or one through six? Because if there's some logic to it, we'll make...

There is. There is. So when we started this process, we looked at doing phase one, would be three parts. Initially, we were going to do one

A, was going to be the PPL substation and the electrical infrastructure, the water main relocation.

The first campus would be part of phase one, one B, and that would be the first data center buildings built. And at the time, as we were working through with MTMA, we were looking at phase one C as being a central water storage for the entire campus. So that has changed, and we've updated our plans accordingly. And instead of doing the central storage on one C, we've decided after some engineering had been done and some calculations that we are now just doing storage for each campus on each campus, specific and relative to each campus instead of doing one main location.

So to start off the project, we had one A, one B, one C. Now, instead of going back and making one C phase four, phase five, we just kept it one C. Okay. Moving on, we'll jump over here to the landscaping plan. So I'll talk through these kind of in a clockwise manner. So the wetland seed mix, all the stormwater basins and the MRC cells that we've spoken about the last few phases, we'll be planted with a wetland seed mix. Like I said, there's not going to be water stored in the ponds.

The ponds will drain within seventy-two hours or less. We're proposing street trees along PA Data Drive. And then also down here in the frontage of the phase, we're proposing a berm similar to what we're doing on phase one A with an evergreen screening on top of the berm. And also, any areas outside of the lawn areas adjacent to the buildings will be planted in meadow mixes. And then we're also proposing enhancing the riparian areas. We've talked about some of the areas that get farmed right up to the edge of the wetlands and the channels, any stream channels.

So we're going to enhance those areas by planting more trees, to improve those buffers, the riparian buffers. And then also, I'll mention again that the existing wetlands and riparian buffer along the Conodoguinet will remain.

And all of that is consistent with what we talked about in one B. Yes, correct. And probably one A too. Correct. Yes.

We're gonna take a look. You know, we received comments from your staff, and we're going to look at adding more landscaping entries in the front of the phase two, just because it is more visible from the Country Club Road than phase one B is. So that was phase two. I'm gonna jump over to phase one C.

Before we go to one C, I think you guys have taken a look at it. Anything you wanna comment on?

Nothing in particular. There are a number of comments remaining. We've done three reviews. Most of the comments that we had from our first review, as is often the case, you know, first review letter is longest one. And as we progress through the second and third one, a lot of the comments have been addressed. There are a series of waivers on the plan, which are the same ones that were requested for the most part on phase one A and one B. We do have to figure out a little bit about Country Club Road, when that piece that's west of one A is going to be built.

I know you guys are planning to do it with one C, but then there's also a little piece of Country Club Road that doesn't front on one C. So we're gonna have a discussion about how that's gonna be addressed. There are a number of items that we need for the final plan. There are still a decent number of stormwater, kind of technical, but also relatively minor comments to be addressed. Yeah, nothing that really stands out, but there are still a number of details working.

All right. And timing-wise, Mark, we're probably looking at June.

It's on the agenda. July 1st is

the deadline right now for both of these plans.

And I don't think we have the county representatives here. Sorry. When is the last meeting prior to that? July 1st.

I don't know. Does anything... I didn't have time to look, to read through the county comments, but

July, July 1st is the meeting, the last meeting before it expired. Isn't there a meeting July 1st coming? Not June 26, July 1st. Wednesday.

The holiday weekend.

Wednesday? Yeah, Wednesday, July 1st. That's when it expires.

But I think he asked when was the last meeting prior to that.

That's the last meeting. Well, yeah, but I thought you meant prior to expiration. So how long they had to expiration. That's the last meeting prior to July 1st. Okay. So we have the planning comments here. They don't usually attend the workshop meetings.

And I don't know if there's anything of note that we wanna comment on, or if you guys wanna comment on.

Are you guys gonna submit a letter replying to these? Yes.

Yes. Okay. Questions, comments from the commission members?

I was sitting at home looking at these drawings, and understanding that we do have Gardrail 400,000 gallons of water. This is about water, again, I just keep thinking about things when I'm looking at all the water tanks now on there. I'm figuring on site you're probably gonna be storing around 40 million gallons, something like that. 36 tanks, give or take. You know, and to fill it isn't gonna take that long. 400,000 gallons a day, you're gonna run 100 days to fill all your tanks. And I guess there's been a lot of thought put into how many tanks are on this site, obviously.

And my question would be, these tanks will be full most of the year. In conversations we had and visits we had in Virginia, water isn't used most of the year. So what I'm really kinda looking for is what is your anticipated total water usage per year? Not the Gardrail 400 a day when you're filling tanks and stuff like that. I'm sure somebody thought of that to come up with this number of tanks.

Yeah. So the tanks are used to buffer those hot times, you know, when it's above 85 degrees in the building. So really the usage is, it's not, there is a usage number that they're planning for, but it's based on the temperatures. And to say that it's this amount every year...

Well, it'll fluctuate. I understand, based upon climate conditions and that, but surely somebody was planning for a worst case scenario here, I would think.

There is, and it's based on a 30-year average of temperature and... But, I mean, I can go back to the team and get you a better idea of what that anticipated is. Now, like I said, it's all theoretical.

'Cause that changes some of the perception people might have that it's gonna be 400,000 gallons every day of the year, throughout the year.

Right. Yeah. I, on a call with Justin who mentioned in the past that, you know, in the wintertime there's no water use, very little water use at all because it's not being used.

Welcome back.

In that estimation, you did not include the waste tanks that would be used elsewhere, so the 40 million...

Oh, it was just a rough number, just counting tanks.

I know they were sort, but some of those tanks are for waste.

Right. Yeah. So, and I think, yeah, total number of gallons stored does include, generally includes the wastewater source. And they're not all source tanks.

Mostly there was like six at each site that were storage tanks.

Six or seven per, yeah, generally the site.

I'm just, 40 million is the number I made up, so about two million gallons a tank.

If one of those tanks were to catastrophically fail, what would happen? Or is it engineered to where we go?

That's a good question for the tank engineer. I mean, they are engineered, they're built all over the world. They're a steel modular tank. But they are... I mean, I think even the one we have, that MTMA has down on 81, it's pretty much that type of a tank that will be used. Maybe not the same manufacturer, but that's the style that's going to be proposed.

Well, when we give a permit for somebody to put in a swimming pool, we require that they have a plan on how, where the water would go when it fails, but so you don't have such a plan. But they are designed for our earthquake zone, right?

Yeah. They're, and there's geotech, extensive geotech done on these tanks, on the grounds of these tanks. There's also drains that are designed with these tanks.

Those tanks also require maintenance.

Yes.

Well, just out of curiosity, what kind of maintenance is done? Do you know?

Yeah. Inspections. I mean, if they're being laid out, we're looking at keeping the spacing so technicians or maintenance crews can get in and keep on top of those, you know, inspect all the joints and the bolts that hold these together. Specifically, I don't know the exact maintenance plans, but I mean, we can definitely get that for you. I would imagine, yeah. But like I said, we can get more from that story.

Other questions, comments on phase two?

Will any of the tanks hold potable water that'll be used in the buildings?

I don't believe that's in the thoughts right now because it's mostly just for the cooling water, that the potable water will be handled through the domestic connection. This is a separate feed.

Well, you could pull out 400,000 and then not be able to flush your toilets. Some sort of allocation.

Yeah. What I was getting at, that if they were for potable water, you'd have to meet DEP standards for drinking water. So you're just gonna pull potable water right from Middlesex Township Municipal Authority's lines?

Yeah, and that's what the building, Mr. Ryan asked about, was, is the water goes to the central building, and then it gets dispersed to the tanks, the waste or the cooling water tanks, or to each data center building.

Okay.

Is there any provision needed for algae growth

and other baddies? That would be... For the tanks? That would be part of the maintenance and inspections. Yeah.

So the request we have, if you give us clarity as to... 'Cause it's not just one big system, and you will have to allocate. You'll probably have something for separate storage, or else you're only gonna pull three hundred and ninety-five thousand. At five thousand a gallon for domestic use, you're gonna have some plan. You just gotta give us clarity what that is. Thank you.

I see a few hands, so hang on just a second. Let's try to finish any questions from the commissioners before we take questions on phase two. Donald

You said that two of these, one of these has fans on the roof and the rest do not.

This style of buildings for this phase are the newer style, and the fans are not on the roof. They're interior to the building. So on phase one B, the two smaller buildings had some fans on the roof. But this newer style, which is present in phase one B also, the fans are interior of the building.

On the plan, these buildings appear to be about a hundred and fifty-three thousand square feet each. Is that correct? Correct. About

approximately nine hundred by two hundred and ten feet dimensions.

Other questions, comments? So yeah, we can take some questions now. We still have one C to go through, which is just a laydown area. So this, I think, the phase two is the bulk of the topic here for today. But...

Do we just wanna walk through both? 'Cause a lot of times questions might pertain generally.

Yeah. So it could be, that's fine, if you can wait just a few minutes for them.

All right. We'll move to one C. So one C, as I mentioned previously, is the yellow parcel, adjacent, directly adjacent to Interstate eighty-one. I believe this is the first time we've really spoken of one C. So one C is, there's no buildings proposed. There's no water and sewer proposed. It is only for construction laydown, for additional laydown as the general contractor begins to build and work on the site. They asked for some additional area for construction related items. And this, even though this is temporary, we are required to go through the plan development process.

So we're submitting a preliminary, and then ultimately we would come back and submit final. So I'll run through the site plan here. So you can see the green colors around the west and the south is landscaping and landscaping berms. The other green here is a wetland. So we're staying away from the wetland. We're upslope of that, and we are proposing two stormwater basins with MRC cells. Very consistent with phase one B, phase one A, and phase two.

I have a question.

And this plan will also go through, you know, the same as one A, one B, and two as far as NPDES, ANS requirements through the county conservation district. We just submitted this about a month ago. I believe we just received county comments today, that we will address. There is nothing on this being, like I said, being those hard buildings that would add to the sound study. It's all for storage and construction laydown. So there would be nothing here proposed that would add to the sound study that we've already completed.

Will this be a stone wall? Yes. The plan is to be gravel. So the grayish area is just a big gravel pad around the back. Yeah, roughly seven acres.

Will that be in perpetuity?

Good question. Our plan is not to do that. We intend to restore it back to meadow. And I think that's probably a discussion too, is to leave the landscaping and the berm in place, and the stormwater basins in place, but then return the gravel area to a meadow, and be back to what it is today.

As we get to final plan, we'll have to have those.

Correct. Our plan is to submit a restoration plan with that final plan that shows how we restore it.

We support that, and we will be looking for that. Okay.

Yeah. Is there any fence, security area around this? Is there a fence?

There would be most likely construction fencing put up during...

Construction fencing. Because it's gonna be, what appears on your drawings to be about a 20-foot drop from where that green line is down into the lot. Pretty steep drop.

Yeah. There's some grading.

It's not showing on this plan, but there is some grading, kind of a flatter area, and then it does drop down to the... You got any close neighbors with children. When I was a kid, that's the first place I would have been, riding my bike off the ramp. When the snow. So yeah, it will need some sort of security. And with that big knob there, what kind of vision are you gonna have pulling out of there? Of course, most of the knob's getting cut off, I guess.

Some of it. You, the knob along Country Club Road. Yeah, 'cause it's pretty blinding now. The driveway location meets the sight distance requirements. Off the top of my head, I can't recall, but I know it's generally

well along what's happening. I forget, but I don't remember how much berm was left along the road there when we were on the front lot and we didn't see that. We didn't think to write that.

What is the 20-foot drop that you mentioned?

Well, it's a grade down to that pad. From where the green line is, is the top of the hill where the neighborhood is, to the lower edge of the gravel lot, it's about a 20-foot down. And isn't that the... From here to here is about a 20-foot drop.

Yes. And isn't that poor drainage in that gray area? No, that's on the top of the hill. You said it's on the top of the hill?

I take it you're proposing to blast the hill away. Is that what I'm hearing?

If you would look at the drawing on page C1-C7, you can see it there.

So I will add there, there is landscaping and fabric screening along the top of that hill.

Okay. Will there be blasting done there?

No, that's not the... We're not anticipating blasting here. Just grading.

Mark, so how many acres are you actually using of the 61?

The laydown area is about seven and a half. And then adding in the stormwater and grading, generally about 10. We're trying to keep all of the work on this side of the drainage split here. We're trying to keep everything towards the Country Club Road.

Aren't there wetlands on that property?

Yeah, right here.

I think that's what I was referring to. Years ago, this was considered for development. There were wetlands.

Yeah. And those are shown here on the plan, the green. And the riparian buffer is proposed just like we proposed on the rest of the site.

All right. Well, memory refresh.

Good. Other questions, comments from the commission members?

So could you repeat what you plan to do for security and safety protection on that decline area?

So we would propose to put a security fence in, a temporary security fence. I mean, we can discuss. I mean, understood that that slope, there is a neighborhood near. We can talk through if there's anything else you... So any details on the fence? How high? Approximately eight feet, 10 feet. Security. Yeah. A security fence similar to what's on site now, and with the same screening, the fabric.

How far down from the ridge

will that line be? So you have a ridge of your, where the ridge is there before it slopes over. Where is this in relationship to that ridge line?

Typically, they put it right up against the gravel pad, but

I think we'll be okay putting it on top of the...

Yeah. Well, I'm

not suggesting, I'm just asking, what is that distance? The distance from the fence to the bottom of the ridge?

To the top of the ridge.

To the property line. Towards the neighborhood. I think you really only go to the property line on that.

Yeah. I think approximately 100 feet from the edge of the gravel to the property line.

So it would be down, so it wouldn't be visible.

No. And I would speculate that we would put it on our side of the screen.

Thank you. Anything to comment on engineering-wise?

I'll mention that this is the first time that we've reviewed this plan, so we could have a longer letter. Some of the more substantive comments we have, wanted to confirm whether or not there's any lighting proposed on 1C. No, similar to the previous laydown. There will be no lighting installed. Another one, we were asking for some advice from the zoning officer on what the use is.

It's listed on the plan as a data center use. I don't know that we agree with that because this is subdivided now. The subdivision has gone through, so this is a standalone lot. Some of the uses that it might qualify for under the zoning ordinance are things like outdoor storage yard, temporary construction site trailer, or a construction trade and contractor use. Depending on what that determination is there from Mark, there may be some other zoning ordinance requirements that come into play. So we're asking for clarification on that. Otherwise, we do have a lot of the same comments that have been discussed here.

Landscaping, other agency approvals, access to Country Club Road, noise. Wanted to clarify what the position is on noise, whether this had been included in the previous study, or sounds like you got what your position is, that it doesn't need to be, and we can talk more about that. We have a long list of pretty detailed stormwater comments as we have for the others. On the plans, environmental impact assessment, we're asking if the intent is for the previously submitted EIA to cover 1C, or if it needs to be amended in order to include 1C.

That's one of our comments. A lot of the same kind of final plan items that we've had for the previous phases, so might just be included in the developer's agreement. There are some modifications requested, a lot of waivers, deferrals, modifications, a lot of them that you've seen before on other phases. Although it's a shorter list, so there are a couple that we're asking if it is not necessary to include some of those previous modifications or what the position is there. So it's pretty typical for a first review. We have a lot of questions. But, you know, we'll give the applicant an opportunity to answer them, and we'll kinda work back and forth, and then see where we land.

Okay. Along with his comments, do you propose to have job trailers at this storage area?

I think that's an option we'd like to keep open.

What kind of items would you store at the storage area? Is this for, like, inlets and steel and construction material?

Yeah. I mean, speaking with the general contractor, this could be used for a number of construction items. It could be a staging area. If there's a large load that's coming to the site, precast walls, and it can't get on the site, they might not be ready to set them. They'd wanna stage them there, get them on Country Club Road safely until they're ready to be put on site.

So it's all construction materials and equipment to be used at the property? Correct.

Yes.

Mark, there would be trailers, there are construction trailers. There's probably gonna be a good amount of construction trailers spread around, especially once you get into phase three. They're gonna have to be moved off the property. Is it

okay to have some construction trailers in there as well? I wanna consider that. Mike's asking to look at what the use is. I wanna look at that, the uses that are allowed in the ordinance. He's given me a couple there. And you said about no lighting, but a construction trailer would have some lighting. Correct?

I guess the trailer might have on it a light outside the door.

They're temporary use. Okay. Thanks.

I think we might have county comments, but I think you said that they just arrived.

Yeah. Just today, I believe. We just got 'em today.

Any other questions from the commission members or comments before we take public comments and questions?

So are there any other buildings or anything that exist on this property at all?

No, it's just an open field.

This is an upland area. This is the top of the hill, right? Basically. So it is well-drained. It drains to the wetlands there. You can see on the screen. You don't propose to grade off the hill along Country Club Road? That's what Doug was asking. Similar to what Cumberland Preserve did.

No. I mean, there is road widening as part of this that's along this frontage. But there's very minimal grading that's needed.

There is some. I can see on the drawing back there that going down towards your driveway, it elevates up about 20 feet till it gets to the top, so you must be cutting something. We're cutting some but not the entire back. Just at the driveway.

Okay. Frank, thank you for your patience. If you could take the podium there if you still remember your comment or question.

Just a couple of quick questions. And I'm trying to get the speed on all this. Where are the water tanks gonna be located physically on the property?

Give your name, Frank.

Oh, sorry. Frank Labrador, Middlesex. That's the first question. Where are they gonna be located? I didn't see them on any of the things. And what is the design of the tanks? They referenced, like, the one on I-81. Are they just a big tank, or are they mushroom shaped, or what are they? And then how big is that tank that's out on I-81, just for comparison?

I don't know if you're familiar with that tank.

The tank on I-81 is about a million gallons. About. And then could you show us on the plan where the tanks are on page two? They're on there, Frank. You may not have seen them. No, they're small circles, but he could blow it up. Those are about seven tanks. Are they a million each?

They're two million. Yeah, they're around two million right now.

What diameter are those tanks?

Yeah, 80 feet is what they are right now. 80 feet? Yes. Diameter.

How tall?

60 to 70 feet, I believe, in that general area.

Wow.

Is this 80 feet in diameter or height? Diameter. Somebody wants to check that math, but yeah, 80, 60 feet high gets you around two million.

We've got, on a different plan sheet here, they're listed as two million gallons, 80-foot diameter, 51 foot high.

51 feet high. So they're lower than the height of the buildings themselves by 20, 15, 20 feet.

Yeah. They'll be the same height as the farm silos that are standing back there now. They're 50-foot silos.

They'll be that height?

If they're 50 foot, I think those silos are 50 foot. Those silos might be 60, but I think they're 50. It's been a while since I bought it.

Other comments, questions about phase two or phase 1C?

Good evening. Arlene Darlington, Wardsville Road. I guess I have questions. Just to confirm, so on phase two, there are five buildings that are nine hundred feet long and two hundred feet wide?

Yeah, a little over two hundred feet wide, but yeah, generally that's the dimensions.

Okay. Well, that's the first time. And are these buildings the same size as the ones in phase 1B?

The bigger buildings, yes.

How many generators would then be for each of those buildings in phase two?

There is generally forty, I think, per building.

Yeah, forty per building. So there'll be two hundred generators at that site. Wow. Forty per.

These are the extra generators.

Is that the diesel's enba? Is that...

These are diesel generators, correct? Yes. Okay. So, well, there's the embedded... How are we going to, what's the testing schedule then? We haven't gotten to phase three, which also has buildings on it. So the close to four hundred generators that are a part of phase 1B, and then there are now, gosh, what did we say? Two hundred generators on site phase two. I'm just really curious how all these generators are going to be run through their required monthly testing. It just sounds to me like there's gonna be generators running all the time. Just to satisfy the testing requirement.

So I'd like for the developer to explain to the group here what's the plan for getting all these generators. We're up to six hundred generators now, four hundred in phase 1B, and two hundred in phase two.

Are those correct? I was thinking it was four something for the whole site. For the whole site. Right. So it was stated

it was stated earlier, prior

meetings, five hundred and thirty-two total campuses.

Is that still the number?

That's close. Yeah, approximately. It's four hundred in phase one, plus the two. Close to six hundred.

So I didn't completely hear you, Jim. Five hundred and thirty-two for the whole site.

That's what was represented in prior meetings.

Okay. So are we satisfied that that's the real number? Because I've kind of been pressing this every time I get up to talk. So I still think that we need to know how these are all going to be tested. They have this exercise requirement every month. We've heard this a couple times now. And I keep asking for how is that going to work into a monthly schedule. Is it going to include Saturdays and Sundays? If not, that's only twenty days every month that you've got to exercise five hundred and thirty-two generators for up to thirty minutes each.

So I don't have all that math, but I think I would really appreciate if the planning committee could push for getting a schedule from the developer so that I don't have to keep asking, because I will. Okay. What about the heat? I know that data centers in general give off heat, and I know that in this plan overall scheme, we only have two buildings that are going to have rooftop fans. But is there not going to be heat generated from the buildings even if they don't have rooftop fans? This is key.

Oh, so we've answered that question previously.

Well, yeah, but I'm asking you to give for the benefit of those who weren't here.

So we're not gonna say something that contradicts ourself. The person who answered the question the last time isn't here, but he will be at the next meeting, and we'll put it in our notes, and we'll address it at the next meeting.

Okay. That'd be great, because I've been to a lot of these meetings, and when I asked Justin before, if he's the person you're referring to who answered the question, I don't recall getting a concise answer from him. I have to recall the question, and then we answer it. Yeah. Okay.

My recollection respectfully is that we never got a detailed answer back out of Republic. As to the heat. Let me finish. Oh, no. The heat? Sorry. No, I'm still back on the... Go ahead.

I agree with you on the schedule.

The schedule. Yeah, I agree with you on the schedule. We'll provide a schedule. I think what we said was, as we move into final for phase 1B, the tenant will be identified, and we'll be able to provide a more specific schedule. So we will be doing that.

Yeah. Because I'd recommend at the time that we set some parameters around those hours, right? And the tenants like this in unison. So, you know, my apologies. I didn't realize you moved on to the heat.

Yeah, I'm trying to get through my questions.

You can answer that one.

Is the tenant going to be the same for each one of these phases?

That's... Yes.

Okay, so just to be clear, we'll get an answer on the heat question at what? The board meeting or the next PC meeting? The next PC. Next PC, okay. Thank you.

Did you have something else? Well, I was just going to add that my experience with this kind of thing is that sometimes these engines will need to run longer than other times, and it might be difficult to state an exact number of minutes, but hopefully we can get some kind of a...

Yeah, I think we can provide something. I mean, the areas where it might flex are, you know, air quality days, right? So that you might have some, require some flexibility, but there can be a regular schedule, and that'll be something that we provide.

As far as testing goes as well, is it best run in idle? In other words, is it run up to full throttle? You know, that can make

a difference between truck emissions and truck without emissions, I imagine.

And Charlie, you brought up the air quality issue. Is that included in the environmental impact study, what we could expect for impact on air quality?

So it's addressed in the EIA, but I think we've stated several times before that the air quality permit is regulated by DEP. So does that make you not responsible?

No, that means that each generator requires a permit or permits for the generators. So there is an environmental regulatory permit issuance and review process for that with DEP.

Will you be asking for exceptions, like they do in Virginia all the time?

I'm not a... I don't know what they do in Virginia, but...

Should model from them.

I don't believe they're... And I'm not sure what exceptions you're referencing, so.

No, I'm just wondering.

We'll comply with DEP regulations.

But you can still request it. And I guess to Nick, the acreage that phase two occupies, roughly?

You might stump me on that one. I don't think I know that off the top of my head. I have a drawing. I don't have that drawing in front of me.

I can find it really quick.

It's on the front sheet.

One hundred and forty-one point one three.

That's okay. And then what about phase 1B? Since you're there.

One second. I only have 1B off the top of my head.

I actually have 1B up. The proposed lot size for 1B is two hundred and twenty-five acres.

Okay. All right. I just wanna get my arms around how ginormous this whole thing is. And just one last question from me. The environmental impact study that was provided, I guess it was last September, is that for the whole project, not just phase 1B that we've discussed a lot? Does it include phase two and phase three?

Yes. It's for the entire campus.

The entire, okay. All right. Thank you. That's all my questions.

Thank you. When you say a hundred and forty-one acres, you're talking the whole green area. The buildings don't cover a hundred and forty-one acres. Correct. The gross area is a hundred and forty-one acres. That's wetlands

grass. Yeah, everything inside that. So that boundary that we showed on this sheet.

There's a nice breakdown inside on CO2004. And for everyone, the hundred and forty-one acres, only fifty-two acres, thirty-seven percent, will be impervious. The rest will accept water and... So it's a favorable balance, less than forty percent of the land.

Yes, ma'am.

Viola Byerly, Country Club Road. I'm just gonna piggyback on the air quality and the generators, just for clarification. Since Cumberland County has, like, the worst air quality, sixty-one percent more than other counties in Pennsylvania, whenever we have bad air quality days, how will the testing then be changed, and how soon do you check that? So in other words, if we have, let's say, fifty generators that are supposed to be tested on the first Monday of that month and we have a bad air quality day, will we also in the schedule that you give us, will it share how those fifty will be repositioned throughout the month?

Because it's my understanding that the facilities must monitor and report emissions ensuring they do not breach the national ambient air quality standards. So how will the reporting occur, and how will the testing be handled if there's more than one, but multiple days, which happens often here in this county of air quality issues?

So I think what we can do is, you know, we can provide a schedule. And then I think we can provide perhaps, by way of example, how, you know, if you have, for example, one air quality action day, right? How does that get handled if you have two or three?

'Cause one may not be an issue, but if we run a week at a time, which sometimes we do in August and September, how will that be handled?

Correct. So I think what we can do is, with the schedule, provide an illustration of how that can be handled if you have multiple air quality days.

And will that be posted somewhere so that people can actually refer back to that if they have questions? I don't know how that occurs, so that's why I'm asking. So if we have bad air quality days, will it be posted somewhere that the facilities will be moving so many testings to a different day and what to expect?

Let me... I understand what you're asking. But let me think about that. Yeah, 'cause I'm not sure what gets... I mean, a schedule is easy to publish. But how adjustments get kind of made on the fly might be a little bit of a challenge.

Great. So if you could just take a look at that and let us know, I'd appreciate it. And then also I wanted to find out, since this facility is being built to the best of standards is what our understanding is and what you've shared with us multiple times, other places such as Virginia, the residents nearby, such as where I live, report a consistent low frequency hum or dull roar consistently, not just sometimes. And so it's an internal organ vibration that happens that penetrates literally the walls and the windows causing sleep disturbances, anxiety and headaches, and this is well documented, the physical effects that come along with being nearby to an AI center, let alone a hyperscale or AI center.

So Mark, can you help us? Is there anything within our ordinances that address the low frequency that comes with this center being built?

We gave this some discussion. Mike could probably talk to it too. We gave it some discussion. We don't specifically address low frequency, but we do address dBA. I understand that. When you lower dBA, you're gonna lower any other type of vibration-type activity.

So we don't have anything that addresses that? Mike, do you wanna say anything?

Yeah. The noise study looked at a few different scenarios. It looked at a regular operation scenario, and it also looked at a power outage scenario, when all the generators were running. In that power outage scenario, all generators running, which is kind of the worst case scenario, there are frequency bands in the ordinance that allow a certain decibel level at a certain frequency, and that spans, you know, the breadth of the human hearing from about 20 hertz to 20,000 hertz. In the second sound study that we received, we had a dedicated consultant look at it, and generally speaking, they were satisfied that even in that all generators on scenario, it would meet the requirements of the ordinance.

We do have a couple questions yet to work through with how some of the pre-development noise was reported. But I don't think that that's gonna make a big change. I mean, that's less than a decibel or two. So I guess, when you say low frequency hum, I don't know exactly what frequency that is, but I can say that what they've submitted meets the requirements of the ordinance even in a power outage, all generators on scenario.

Well, even recently, and not necessarily... Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Mark.

We have two different standards in the zoning ordinance. One is 70 decibel dBA at the property line. They're saying that they'll be around 55 is what I recall. Is that... Do you guys remember? Somewhere around 55, 50. Correct. Right. And we also have what's called a performance standard. That's after it's built. And that's where the octave level... Did you study the zoning ordinance? You understand what I'm saying? 'Cause that's... We made them also model it after construction, and also in the developer's agreement, they have a noise study where they'll be doing evaluations and mitigating it if it does rise above what was projected.

So this is what we can do, and... Is there a better ordinance? Probably there is, but I don't think ours is written very poorly either, really, compared to others.

But it doesn't address the low frequency. So can you tell me, as this is your business, sir, what the difference is between what you're building here that's supposed to be top quality and what they've already built in Virginia and how that will be mitigated? I'm hoping you can really address that since this is your business.

So a few meetings ago, we had our sound expert here. And my recollection of what he said was, you know, Mark's right. You know, there's a base 70 decibel dBA limitation, that we were as expected, given the design, both with the equipment that's utilized as well as site layout, buffering, and so forth, that we were gonna actually be operating significantly below that, the 55 dBA. He also said that the dBC generally runs plus 15 maybe on the dBC side. So if you have a 55 dBA, it's gonna be a little higher on the dBC.

But somebody asked him the question, "Are we gonna be able to perceive that?" off the site. In particular, the neighbors, the closest neighbors on the other side of the Conodoguinet. My house, yeah. Right, and the answer to that was no. So we're happy to bring our sound guy back. But he was here at another meeting.

I know, and I was here at that one. So I bring this up again because really the studies and our frequency ordinances here don't address this low hum that's felt. And I've already had issues with that with the blasting end. It's not the blasting. I don't know what else is being done across the street during these timeframes, but it literally makes me wanna crawl out of my skin.

I'm not kidding you. It's horrible. So I understand your answer, but it really didn't answer my question. It really didn't. So I guess we, you know... Go ahead. Oh, go ahead. I was gonna also say that we're... Let me just finish real quick. So we live in a very unique area with this valley. I can literally have Jody yell at me across the Conodoguinet and hear from my house. It's a very unique situation in this valley. And the noise that carries and how it doesn't carry is very unique. And unless you live there, you don't understand. You just don't. 'Cause we hear. 'Cause I can play telephone with somebody that lives almost two miles away from me without using a telephone. So when I come to you with these questions about sound, they're very important. And an ordinance doesn't necessarily mean you're right. So if this happens afterwards, who addresses it, how it passed, and what can be done?

These are the questions I ask for you to think about before we pass on. Now please go ahead, 'cause I did have one other quick question for the other phase that's happening, sir.

Okay. Just like we did with dBA, if we're gonna start drilling deeper and deeper into dBC, we should probably have a good baseline for that also, measurements. Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but traffic is a big producer of dBC as well. Everything in your house, your fans, any machinery, furnaces, air conditioners are a huge producer of dBC. So having a baseline would be all important. We all live with it. It's around us. And if I remember, I think back in my OSHA days, now dBA, like I said, actionable level to OSHA in the factories is 85 decibels, is where you start taking action.

I think dBC was 135 or something like that. Significantly higher, 'cause it's a different scale totally. So, you know, if we're gonna look at dBC real hard, we should probably have a baseline for that as well.

Thank you. I just know there's also many false negatives that were shared with me in the recording of the sound in that area, so I want us to make sure we're taking a look at it. I wanted to go to the section that they're talking about for staging things. If we can move forward in the slides to show that.

1C, I think.

That's correct, 1C. Can you blow that up, sir?

Can you go a little bigger? Thank you.

So that gray section that's got all the back and forth on it, I live there. That looks like the hill to me. Are you saying you're not gonna blow up the hill for staging?

No. That's not the plan. That's not the plan, sorry.

Well, that's why I'm asking, because I'm telling you that's mostly wetland, and I don't know where you're staging. I saw the little flags that are posted out there that are supposed to be the wetlands. For somebody that lives there, the wetlands are bigger than what you got posted. So how are you using that area as a staging area if you're not gonna fill it in? And then how much of that to the back, I also see that blue section to the back. So look, tell me if I'm wrong, please, 'cause I want to truly understand. It looks like you're staging to the front, and then you're also staging to the back.

So can you please explain that a little bit more? Because again, these aren't my normal things. I don't normally read this stuff, so I need a little help and understanding.

So this area here, I'm gonna circle it with my cursor. That is the staging area. And that'll be graded with regular equipment, is that what you're saying? Yes.

So where's Country Club Road? That's right there.

Right here.

So how is that not the hillside?

It's on top of the hill.

That hill's a slant, though. It's not like a rock cliff.

We'll be doing some grading to level that area.

Yeah, we'll be grading with equipment, excavators, maybe a couple pans.

But the low area is the green area down there. And the blue areas in the back, that's stormwater management. They're not gonna use that in the back or to the top.

So how many acres are you proposing to use for staging?

Between seven and eight acres. 7.7, I believe.

Let me caution you with your continuing statement that that's on the top of the hill. If it wouldn't be too dark, I could take you down here to the top of the hill on my farm. I think the highest point. It might be the second-highest point, and you'll get your feet wet. It is a wetland. This soil is very unpredictable.

Well, there are upland wetlands. Look, you did have this map, didn't you? Yeah, thanks.

Mark, I see the flags, but I'm telling you I live on that road.

Okay. Understood.

And I'm telling you, this is great, but you should come with receipts like pictures because that's not what that looks like, and there's, that place floods all the time, all the way across the road.

Well, the low area does where the green is. The stone house is up there.

And it floods across to the stone house.

Yeah. They're not touching that area. Do you see what he's showing you? That's the low land there.

Okay, so who do I call whenever we start getting floods and you guys are putting stuff on there?

Because, yeah, there's another location up here on a hill where they have actually put a barricade around the spring.

Up here.

And that's the water they use in their houses. So let's don't go by it. It's at the top of a hill.

So I'm the one that said that. It's well-drained upland soil. It's shale upland soil. Go ahead, Andre.

So the entire site has wetlands have been mapped. We have a preliminary jurisdictional determination from the Army Corps. DEP has reviewed the wetlands. We've done extensive borings, test pits across the site, hundreds, and the wetlands are what we show on this map, the green. Not to say that if it's a hard rain and there's some wet areas after a hard rain, but there's not a defined wetland where we are proposing to do any work.

I love how people who live here tell us what it's like. I love that.

Yeah. Let's go.

Taking out a little context to that too, I'm looking at the grading plan and, you know, because it's a hillside and they wanna create a relatively level pad, the grading plan shows cut on the high side and fill on the low side to create a pad that's roughly level. And I say roughly level because it's not completely level. The pad still has some slope to it, but it's flat enough that they can lay down equipment. With respect to wetlands, I mean, a wetland is where the groundwater elevation and the surface elevation are the same elevation. That's what makes it a wetland. Where they have the pad, there's a great embankment coming up, where the pad sits about fourteen, fifteen feet higher than the wetland, so I think that gives them some protection from the groundwater as well.

My name is Ashton Dickerson. I live

up at three sixty-six North Middlesex.

I'm sorry. What was your last name?

Dickerson. To touch on what the last lady said, maybe it's because we have old buildings and stuff, but even right up there, everything echoes down through my neighbor's yard and across that way. I wasn't gonna come up and talk. This is kinda not more so for you guys. You guys kinda have to be here. It's for the people that are pitching for the data center. I worked in commercial construction for about two months, realized it wasn't for me. I didn't like being a part of building warehouses and stuff. And it's just sad to see people whore themselves out for a dollar. Building warehouses, especially data centers where it's not adding value to the community, it's not adding value to anyone's life.

I've been in residential construction for, like, fifteen years now. You know, I build spaces where people enjoy life, enjoy their family. And I can most likely assume that if these people's children knew what they did to earn their money, they wouldn't be proud of their parents either. So that's all.

Bill, you wanna start the clock? John Manta, two fifty-five... I would like to know a couple of things about the generators, most specifically how they're gonna be refueled after extended use and how they're gonna be refueled for testing. Is there gonna be diesel storage on site? What are you going to do about mitigating the heat that's generated not only by the data center themselves, but from the generators, which at the latest study that I just read could affect an area of about four miles in the diameter around the data center and raise the temperature of that area by as much as sixteen degrees.

The first two questions are most important. Having installed generators for most of my electrical contracting life, I know that generators are run automatically by time, and time is predesignated by whomever. And so those generators are gonna pop off at whatever day, whatever time that they're set to. Now, into the young lady's question about the times of the year when the pollution levels in Carlisle and in Cumberland County as a rule get to the level where you have to not even hang clothes outside because they'll be dirtier when you bring them in than when you put them out. So the questions remain, the first part is: How are you going to refuel generators after every test, and is there generator diesel fuel going to be stored on site?

So I can answer part of that. We're gonna have to come back with a maintenance plan for the generators. There will be some storage on site for the diesel fuel. I don't know the specifics of when they're refueled. That's part of the maintenance. I believe that was the first question.

The first question was about maintenance and how are you gonna refuel after maintenance if you're proposing that it's gonna be an emergency system that's gonna crank out as much power as you need as when the standard electricity fails.

As well as the ground...

So just to make it tangible for somebody like me who doesn't know much about this, is it diesel that's piped to the generators, or does a truck drive around and fill the tanks up? Or how's... Do you know?

No. It's being worked out. I mean, that would be a final plan to give more detail on that, but it's going to be trucks. It's not gonna be a pipe going to the site or anything.

So just piping to a generator with a solid line is kind of... It's not a very good idea. It's not very safe. A bigger concern, safety, than that is the ground around those generators where you have spills. How are you gonna mitigate the spills from that diesel fuel that hits the ground? And how are you gonna protect against freezing of those tanks? I'm assuming that there'll be above ground tanks that'll be put out much the same as the water tanks.

And I also like to ask a question. Phil made a comment a long time ago, when something like this, and I'll paraphrase, "Standards are standards," and I believe he used the coach from the Pittsburgh Steelers as an example. Standards are standards, so why are we making exceptions and granting exceptions and waiver after waiver for things that we oughtn't be doing? We ought to hold those people, and they preach transparency and how good they're gonna be for us and how great they're gonna be for our community. But yet every time you turn around they're asking for a waiver, and even something as simple as a light post, although we, you know, turned that down.

How many more waivers have we granted? How many more exceptions have we granted? How many more exceptions will be granted in the future when all I'm hearing tonight is it's a proposal, it's not in the final plan, it's not this plan, it's that plan. So it sounds to me like you're coming to us with a half-baked plan that's gonna magically flush itself out at the very end when you start to put, you know, computers in buildings, and then it's too late. Sorry. So I guess my question is, you know, I haven't had the answers to any of them so far, but my biggest concern is heat, and the heat that's gonna be generated not only by the buildings but by the generators themselves.

And you talked about the insignificant amount of heat that's gonna be generated by the outside fans. You also talked about those storm drains or those storm basins or whatever you wanna call them that'll be emptied in what, 48 hours? Is that the number you guys have been quoting to us? Correct. Could you please tell me the kind of ground that's underneath those catch basins. Is it limestone? Limestone's certainly not gonna drain itself in 24, 48, 72 hours. Shale, different story. Clay, different story again. You know, what's underneath those storm catch basins?

Do you want me to go to mic or do you wanna take that?

Yeah, go ahead. So the majority of these basins, all that I... Mike, correct me if I'm wrong, I think one or two proposed are the managed release concept basins. So they're managed to not infiltrate into the ground, but the water will infiltrate into the amended soils that are put in place, you know, the few feet on the bottom of the basins. And then any large storms, it's transported through either a spillway or a pipe into the detention basins. So we understand the ground beneath all these basins, so we've taken the steps.

And I'll also add that this has been an extensive process of designing and working with DEP and HRTV and their staff too, to make this stormwater meet the requirements. Mike, any...

Oh, just before you go. Just suppose for a second that that nice diesel spill that spills over after those generators have been fueled makes its way into those catch basins or storm drain basins, what happens then? Storms are storms, guys. This is Pennsylvania, okay? We get storms. We have incredibly unpredictable weather. Most people here in this county will say, "If you don't like the weather, wait a couple of minutes and it'll change." When you talked about the wetland areas, and the young lady brought it up, so did the gentleman over here.

You know, wetland areas are wetland areas, and what are you gonna do to protect them, you know, for lack of a better phrase. And again, it's getting pretty interesting to hear the same comments about we're looking into it, we're doing this, we're doing that, and we never see any results for it. Thank you.

If I could just add one thing about the waivers that you mentioned, all the waivers. I, of course, haven't looked at all the waivers that might appear on these, and there are good waivers and there are those that aren't quite as good. But the subdivision and land development ordinance is written with the fact in mind that there will be waivers under certain conditions. And because if we need to require them, we can if it's in the ordinance. But the one that we see so often is curbs and sidewalks. If you build a house, you have to put curbs along the street, the road, and put sidewalk.

And if you're out in the country, you don't want curbs and sidewalks, and it doesn't make any sense. So that's usually waived. Now, we need to take a good look at what we have here and what those waivers are. But I'm just saying that waivers are kind of a thing that we see frequently.

I can comment on a couple of things. The curb and sidewalk's a good example of a waiver modification request. That one's submitted as a deferral, which says that, and there's a requirement on the recorded plan, that if the township decides that we now have sidewalk adjoining property, something for the sidewalk to connect to, we can then require you to install the sidewalk, I think within the span of six months. So I think that was... That's standard. And before we move on to the stormwater basins, the geology underlying the site is shale predominantly.

There's very little, if any, limestone on the site. There was a lot of geotechnical testing done to confirm that. The MRC basin is kind of a redundant basin. There are two basins in series. The first is a series of cells that collect the water and retain it in engineered soil. So the soil and stone, bedrock, would be over-excavated and replaced with about two to three feet of an engineered soils material. In that engineered soils material is an under drain. It's a French drain basically, that leads out through an orifice, and then that orifice will dewater the basin within 72 hours.

It doesn't rely on the underlying soils. It relies on that French drain system with a control orifice. Once the water leaves that MRC cell, it then flows to the detention basin, which is kind of the standard basin that's been around since the '70s. So it's kind of two basins in series.

Jody, just one minute, if I could follow up on the diesel fueling. I would suggest that I would be unable to support any final plan on any of the campuses without a diesel refueling strategy because we're not getting the information that we need. It was first addressed a month and a half, two months ago with a casual comment that was grossly misstated. And very familiar with the self-containment units that diesel generators are. And in no plans has there ever been any proposed diesel storage. And given the volume that's on site, it would have to be massive.

So we're looking for a refueling strategy. If I was running the site, I would imagine that I'd be bringing in tankers to refuel right into the generators, but it's your operation. Although I can see where you would want some fuel, but I would rather contract with a third party and line them up with priority to bring tankers in because you're talking massive amounts of fuel. Additionally, I would like to know the total gallons being stored on site. So if you know the size of the tanks on these, what I understand them to be two point five megawatts on the big ones, and then you got your reserve ones.

If you can just tell us how much fuel is being stored on the site. Thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

Jody Shivell, Teaberry Drive. I have some miscellaneous questions actually. One is about the fuel. I asked Justin, I believe, at the last meeting, in fact, I'm pretty sure it was, and I specifically asked would there be any fuel stored on site, and at the end of that he said, "No." And at the end of that, I asked would it be above... So you're saying there's no storage stored underground or above ground? And the answer was, "No, we are not." So that would be a lot of trucks filled up coming in at one time, probably two. And are they gonna sit those trucks in one of those little spots overnight so they always have one available?

You know, I mean, I'm just saying, because there wasn't a direct answer to that. And I was concerned about the fire management plan, and that's really what was triggering that question. The noise. We went to Cumberland Preserve, Viola and I, by foot door to door talking to people, and what I noticed there is in the front end they have all the 81 highway noise coming through. And we were at one spot where there weren't houses, and my watch went off for a loud noise area, which I have set.

And they say, or somebody said, and I can't tell you, you know, I can't verify it other than what he said to me was that they asked about that, Mark, and you said 81 or whoever does that was not willing to put up a sound barrier on that side. Does that sound familiar at all?

On the approved plans for Cumberland Preserve, there was no provision for any sound barrier. What I had said is that sound barriers cost a fortune. Last I heard, this was fifteen years ago, maybe $1,000 a foot. I'm sure it's more than that. So we either spend $1,000 a foot for a sound wall, or we fix 81, improve 81 through the Carlisle area, add third lanes or whatever we're having to do. So I'm not sure. It would only be done if the federal government widens that area, they do a noise study, they may add a sound wall. But there isn't any plan for a sound wall. That's probably what I said.

So they've been promised really when they were buying houses, you know, that there was gonna be the housing development, the little city street everybody could've used, walk up through those trails. Not seeing any of that, and now they've got noise. But the next thing they've got now that I don't think they really understood either, which is why you saw them all here last week from that community, I hope they will come again. Do we have anybody in from Cumberland Preserve? I don't think so. No. See? Yeah, that's a problem.

So they're getting now... Are they gonna get the noise from the data center, is my question. Because now they're gonna have it coming at them from the front and from the back.

Can we answer that?

Well, yeah, I think our sound study identifies what the noise level will be generated off site, that it's gonna be in the area of about fifty-five dBA.

The background noise was, my recollection was, in the neighborhood of 45? 45 dBA, something like that.

At your property line.

Correct.

Yeah. And there was spikes, I think, on there, I think up to 70 in some cases. Correct. That's maybe from 81, that's the identified low traffic noise.

Which is why I said now they have both. They shut their windows on the backside at 81, and now they'll still have some sound probably coming through from the front. So I'm just saying that I noticed that was pretty... I couldn't believe it myself. So yeah. And in the hyperscale data center, how many of those little chips are in there that... And I'm understanding that... You probably know this. I mean, you probably discussed everything. I see you smiling sitting there. So you can just come out and smile.

I smile because I had no idea. But we can provide... I don't... I'm a land use attorney. I don't know how many chips are in one of those buildings.

Well, I ask that because I was reading about an issue with landfills and how full they are, and these, every two years or so, right, the chips need replaced. Is that... The servers need replaced.

Yeah, there's... Yeah, they're not good forever.

Yeah, so are there a thousand in there, or one building, or two thousand, or you know? So and then who pays for that to the landfill, and what landfill are we using that's willing to take those type items? So there are questions I think we need to answer, because it's gonna be ongoing. And when generators break down and whatever else happens, I mean, they have chemicals in them.

I'd be curious if those aren't recycled because of the precious metals in them.

Well, whatever. I don't want them dumped in a pile in the ground, you know, or in a garbage can forever, and that's gonna drain out into the creek.

That'd be a question for the tenant, once we've identified a tenant.

But fair question that probably should be answered before, you know, what landfill is gonna take them, and who's paying for it. Okay. And then I think I read somewhere during an outage that all generators, the diesel ones, are allowed to be run, and that they frequently will exceed the allowable amount in an area for whatever it is with the DEP, for air quality. So and that they often have to tell them about it, and I don't know how is that... What happens? Like, if it peaks over, are you just allowed and there's... or is there an ordinance for that, that it doesn't matter what it is for how many days if they're in an outage?

You mean noise or pollution or both?

No, I mean air. Air more than... Well, we know what the noise is gonna do. That'll be horrendous. Somebody always involved over that. That's bad. But the air quality, 'cause it's gonna, you know... I foresee us having outages based on our drought level and all of this. It's so huge, this amount of buildings.

So concern would be what happens when the air quality, you hit it, and who's monitoring that, and how does it get reported

and do you really report it? I'm

curious, because we've seen... Go ahead, I'm sorry.

That'd be a good question for PPL, since this is feeding off the 500 KVA line out there. You know, since it was put in in the '60s, how often has the 500 KVA line gone down? They could tell you that probably. Because that line is, as they said, it would be something catastrophic for that line to go down.

But now we've added all this to it.

Massively. And I believe they're also back feeding this with that new line they're putting in that's coming across Tracy's property there, so they've got redundant sources of power. But that's a question, you know. How often has this line gone down in the last, since 1960, '64?

Yeah, and what happens when it does and the air quality topic...

Something bad has happened. Something really bad has happened at that point.

Yeah. That's why I'm a little concerned about that emergency management plan. Okay. But that's on here obviously. I might have one or two more. I did wanna know about the fire process. We have to contract out to four companies, I think, and I know this isn't exactly part of the planning, but it kind of is. Who pays for that? Like, when we have a fire and it's here, who pays for everything that was required, the amount of time they were there, the usage of whatever items? Like, is the township paying for that, or is the township you contracted paying for that, and they send you a bill, or what goes on?

I don't have the full knowledge of this, but we have a contract with four fire companies. We get money in from the state of Pennsylvania, and we distribute it to those companies per our contract. We also have a fire tax, and we distribute money to the companies based on a proportion of how much they serve different parts of the township, as I understand it. So each incident isn't billed separately, but this is something that's evolving, and we're having trouble with having volunteer firefighters, so we may be moving to a larger tax with paid firefighters.

And so we're paying, so our taxes are going up, not the...

Businesses pay the fire tax as well.

Yeah, businesses. The data center would pay their fair share.

Who's finding their fair shares?

The township levies... One of the things we're allowed to do is levy a fire tax. I really... This is not my area of expertise, but I'm just giving you a general reply. Is that satisfactory? You can talk with the supervisory board.

Yeah, I just wanna know, you know, I don't think we should be affected by this. We're already gonna be affected by the electricity probably, but this is a fire, and we don't have a township... I mean, a fire station, and I understand we may have to support it to some fact. But you could look at an average of any fire that we do and figure out what we would probably owe compared to this massive fire or whatever, or frequent ones, because it heats up. I mean, they may come out twice a month in one of the articles I read.

Well, this is a large property, and they will pay proportionally their share. That's all I can say. They're gonna pay their share. I'm not sure what else to say, ma'am. It isn't my jurisdiction.

But somebody should be presenting it to whoever decides how much is being paid out, who's gonna pay for this before one of them happen. Okay. And then if it's out of ridiculous, then we need to go back and talk to them. Like, "You still owe money here." You know? I don't think we should be paying that other than what we would normally do for a fire.

'Cause we're picking townships that don't have volunteers as it is, and we don't even have one. So, yeah.

My concern.

Okay, thanks.

Thank you. In answer to your question about the servers, somebody will come in and purchase the servers, strip out the rare metals, usable metals, and the rest of it goes into the dump. That's a simple... It's more complex than that. Metal recycling or whatever, it's like they'll recycle it

Now, e-waste.

As much as possible.

They have to pay for e-waste. As for the fire protection in this area, back in the '50s there were no fire companies in any townships. We didn't have any. And overnight, fire companies sprang up. Farmers, businessmen, everybody in the community went together to build firehouses. They took old milk tankers and made water tankers. They took trucks and mounted pumps on the front bumper and ran them off of the engine. As the fire protection evolved in this county, we added equipment, we added facilities. And I can remember back, I think it was in the late '70s or early '80s, IBM come into New Kingston, build a big warehouse.

It's gonna be four or five stories tall. Nobody had a ladder truck in the, except in the cities. IBM bought a ladder truck and gave it to, I don't remember if it was Silver Springs or New Kingston. So as things evolve, things get worked out. We can't, we don't have a crystal ball. So as we work through these plans and we see what is needed for fire protection, we will suggest to them, you know, "If you wanna come in here and do this, you're gonna have to bring the things along that we don't have, or help to pay for it." And so as we work through these plans and see what's needed, we will make requirements for it.

And that's why I'm bringing it up. And I appreciate

that you did, but I'm giving you an answer of what I've seen

in the 60-something years that I've lived here and watched things evolve.

I mean, I can remember, we didn't plow the roads. People wanna talk about water quality in the Susquehanna River and the Chesapeake Bay. Well, how are you gonna have water quality when you're salting the bay from both ends? Every time a snowflake comes, we run out here with these tri-axle dump trucks and we salt the road from one end to the other. We used to drive on an inch and a half of packed snow because we didn't wanna wear out the cutting edge on the snowplows. Well, now if we don't scrape the road clear to bare macadam covered with salt and cinder, the lawyers are coming after, just waiting for a wreck. And the way we cindered the roads was one supervisor drove the truck with the plow and another one stood in the back with a flat shovel and scattered cinders by hand. Well, now when you see the tractor or the snowplow truck go through your development or on the road, they're spreading salt and cinder like it's, it just, it's ridiculous.

So, but where I'm going with that is we are... Things evolve as the need arises. So if they're gonna have a fire situation that we can't handle, they're gonna have to help to handle it.

Yes, sir.

Kyle Gerber, Bernheisel Bridge Road. First I have a question for the township. This project is moving so quickly that it's really hard for residents to keep up. And one of the things that makes it specifically difficult is knowing what plans to ask for in right to know requests. So my question for the township is, would you guys consider making all plans submitted by the developer and any of the comment letters from HRG publicly available to us online via some type of file sharing system? I think that would help us to be a lot more prepared when we come to these meetings and have more insightful questions to ask.

And from my perspective, it would also reduce the load on the township, who I would imagine is probably pretty swamped at the moment with a bunch of right to know requests that keep piling in. So I just wonder if that's something the township would be open to. I feel like it would be a big step towards the transparency of this process.

I don't know. Eileen, or somebody wanna comment on that?

We can talk to the township's solicitor about that idea. A lot of the plans that are submitted, in fact all these plans are copyrighted. We're not allowed to release them online or through Right-to-Know. So our solicitor advises us what we can release and not release. So we could ask the solicitor if that's something the township wants to do. I'm not really in administration on this one.

I guess the question then would just be like anything that is, like, granted to us, like our right to access under Right-to-Know law, could that be made available to us kind of in real time as it comes out so that we don't have to kind of be, like, probing the township?

Well, Eileen's here, she's the secretary. Supervisors are here. They heard what you said. I'll just leave it at that, if that's okay.

No, that's fine. Thank you. Second thing, kind of just a statement to the planning commission members. I believe that many of you, at least some of you, know in your hearts that this project is wrong. I don't mean data centers as a whole necessarily, but specifically just the way this process has been handled. The general attitude around the project has kind of been that, "Well, this is just business as usual." But I don't think that's... That's not true. This is not just business as usual. This is massive. It's unprecedented. It's not anything we've seen before. And then you guys now are being put in an awkward position where you're kind of cornered and forced to review things that are at a scale that you've never faced before, and at a pace that I think frankly is unreasonable.

And so I just wanted to remind you that as far as I'm concerned, you don't need to say yes to this. And a few reasons for why. I know our ordinances permit this to be used by right, which that in and of itself is insane, and I fault the supervisor board for doing that to you, but here we are. But you are still the planning commission. This project looks nothing like what's in our comprehensive plan in Middlesex. It doesn't even look like anything that's in some of the county's comprehensive plan. It certainly... I think it mentions data centers, but certainly not a single site, hyperscale data center like we're talking about here.

You, in addition to being the planning commission, are also the trustees of the rights that are granted to Pennsylvanians in Article One, Section twenty-seven of the Pennsylvania Constitution. And to that point, the Appalachian Trail Conservancy has recently publicly expressed their disapproval of this project on the grounds that it negatively impacts the environment and the national treasure. Their sole purpose for existing is to protect natural resources, which are granted to us in the Constitution, and to preserve the Appalachian Trail itself. We also, additionally, and I know Mr. Courtney disagrees, but we have reason to question the validity of the developer's impact assessment due to a perceived conflict of interest.

In my opinion, and from my perspective, you have multiple grounds on which not to approve this project. We all know that it's wrong. I think you know that it's wrong. You should not recommend this to the board, even if your vote is merely a protest. Use your seat to make a statement, and have peace knowing that you chose to stand up for the truth even when everyone around you is willing to compromise. That's all I have to say.

Thank you.

Do you realize that how many studies have been conducted regarding major construction project and what happen when natural disaster strike? Have any of you ever experienced a true storm, freeze them? Somebody been in this, in real raining storm in this township? No. Okay. It is the community and resident who suffer to the simple fact that whatever you are, engineer, inspector, some official, or planning board member, and no matter how many study you conduct, mother nature will inevitably reclaim and protect that which human being driven by economic ambition have destroyed. The chemical that project manager discharge often surreptitiously, I'm sorry, when no one is looking, inflict damage of the land and their air, damage that will only become apparent with the passage of time, long after you yourself have reached to a sixty.

Thank you.

As far as these stormwater basins and experiencing a storm, I lived here in nineteen seventy-two. Hurricane Agnes came through. We got twelve inches of... We got a total of twenty-one inches, and eighteen inches of it fell in about twelve hours. And in 1972, nobody knew what a retention pond was in this county or anywhere around. As I said about things evolving, back then, you build a building, and you just build it. You want to build a house in this township, and a farmer wanted to sell an acre of ground to you, and you wanted to come in and destroy an acre of ground to build a house, 'cause that's what you're doing.

You're destroying a farm when you take an acre of ground and you build a house on it. You're taking that ground out of production. So then we started having floods and runoff problems, so they designed retention ponds. Of course, they're not reten... If our engineer's here, they're not retention ponds. They're stormwater management ponds. And this thing is... That's why all these are here. If they'd have built this in '72, there wouldn't have been a retention pond anywhere. So we are managing our stormwater a lot better than we did fifty years ago. And so yes, in answer to your question about living through storms, we've had our share of storms here, and we've weathered them and made improvements, so...

Any construction close to the creek don't have any plan because the creek is not do whatever the human want. The creek do whatever the Mother Nature want. It doesn't matter what the human makes.

I wanna make a comment and a suggestion to the gentleman that spoke before you did. We only have the zoning ordinance, subdivision and land development ordinance, excuse me, and a few other rules and regulations to follow, and we're not judging this on whether we like it. And if we're a good planning commission member, we keep that out of the equation because it's what we have to do. If you review the ordinances carefully and see some place where we have not, where we've missed it, or these plans violate the ordinance, bring them to us. But until we find some in writing documented that they are avoiding, misrepresenting or violating, we're really powerless to do anything.

Yeah. Usually we try to keep it to one speaker per evening. But as you were...

Am I allowed to respond to that?

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm well aware of that. I know that... I say typically, and I know it's not typically, it's always. Your job is to take the ordinances that have been set into law by the supervisors and apply them to the projects and evaluate, does this align with the ordinances or not? And that's really all you do. I totally understand that. What I'm getting at is there comes a time where you have to use your conscience as well as your mind and compare ordinances and say like, "Okay, but is what we're doing here, is it ethically and is it morally right?" And I'm not necessarily...

Like, you follow your own conscience. Discern that for yourself. It's between you and the Lord. But when a time does come where you have to evaluate whether what you're being asked to do here is morally and ethically right, then you may need to go above and beyond and appeal up the chain and not just kind of put your head down and do your job that have been given to you by, you know, your higher-ups. But go even higher than that to say, "Look, no, this isn't right." And in this case, the Pennsylvania Constitution does grant us certain rights that I do believe are being violated in this.

And I think you have both the ability but also the right

to

and the responsibility to appeal up to state constitutional law and say, "This needs to apply here," because it's not being represented by the ordinances.

Thank you.

Ashley Asper, one fourteen...

Just a question about the blasting. For phase one B, when do they start blasting?

For how long will that be, and how deep are they planning to blast?

Yeah. I don't know the depths. I think it's gonna be pretty in line with what they've been doing. As far as timing, there's a break right now, and it's going to be starting. I don't know the exact dates. I mean, that's up to the general contractor. We do have the bi-weekly meetings. I'd say we can share that after the next bi-weekly, when ourselves and the township is in attendance with the GC, and we can answer that question.

So the next PC meeting, is that what you mean?

Yeah, I believe that's after the next bi-weekly.

Okay. So no blasting until then?

I wouldn't say that.

I don't know. It's all in the land right now.

It's not voted on.

No, no, it's not.

It can't run.

Right.

It shouldn't be blasting. So I guess I need clarification.

Can they start blasting now with the preliminary approval for 1B?

Township, they're on the line.

Blasting is on pause for now. We're not blasting.

Why is that?

They're waiting for NPDES approvals, to continue blasting. Possibly end of this month.

For 1B or 1A?

1B.

Is that the permit that was...

1B has final appro... or preliminary approval. Preliminary. With preliminary approval, they can blast at their own risk. So I answered it?

Yeah, so how will we be notified though? Is that gonna go on the website for communication for the residents?

They have a permit through DEP to blast. From sunup to sundown. So I don't know, ma'am, about notifications.

So I think we can look into providing some kind of schedule.

Perhaps the website's the easiest place to do it. But I think once we know the schedule, Mr. Carpenter's correct.

Is that the PAX website?

Correct.

So their website and then the township's website is where we should be looking for a schedule?

It's their information. Just so I understand. It'll be on their website.

And so we can't blast without an NPDES permit. So we don't have the NPDES permit. And we're hopeful to receive it soon, but we don't have it yet.

This is very practical because I'm trying to house.

So it means a lot to those of us on the road. Thank you.

Any final comments? Questions?

Hi, my name's Carl Ray. I live in Country Manor, but I grew up at the end of Locust Point, right along the Conodoguinet. It was my swimming pool as a kid. I'm an angler, I'm a hunter, and I very much so respect wildlife and our local ecosystem. I was unable to attend the prior meetings due to work. I run my own business, and in my free time I also clean up the Conodoguinet from tires, trash, glass, because that's where I played as a kid. I'm just curious as to the effect that this is gonna have on our already shallow creek that is inches high.

How much water is gonna be drawn to where we're walking on rocks, and our kids don't have that creek to play in like I did? Or, you know, what's it gonna do to the wildlife and the ecosystem that's been here for hundreds of years? We talk about, my dad's an old school farmer who has been here since the '70s, '60s. This AI fake art crap has not been here that long, and yet it brings in revenue, yet it puts money in people's pockets, yet funds stuff that people need money for. But the end result is that it destroys our environment. It destroys the creek.

Where is that wildlife gonna go once you deprive it of that watershed? And I'm sorry, but this quite frankly makes me livid because this was literally my home, and has always been my home. And you know, I never imagined not being able to fish the Conodoguinet, or not being able to take my kids there to play. And is that the future that we're about to run into, all for some fake art? Like I grew up, I didn't have a cell phone until I was 18. I played outside and I took care of the horses. Now it's give your kid an iPad and let them generate fake art.

Like, that's the world we live in today, and that brings so much money that we're questioning whether it's okay to destroy our local land, all for a profit, all to fund whatever needs funding. And I understand that, but at the same time, I don't. So that's my question, is how long until the creek's completely dried up and the ecosystem starts being destroyed?

And our wells dry.

Yeah. Could you... Thank you for your question. We've covered this in some other

meetings about the water usage. There will be no wells on site. In fact, as part of the plan approval for phase 1B, we were required to include a note on the plan that said that there would be no wells on site. There also will be no discharge of anything coming out of the data center into the Conodoguinet. The discharge will go, will be treated to standards of the Middlesex Township Municipal Authority, and then discharged. All of the water that will be utilized by the facility will be coming from the authority.

And that water is all based on the current allocation and current wells that the authority already has, and the allocation that already has been approved by the Susquehanna River Basin Commission. So there is no water for this project that's being taken from the Conodoguinet.

Okay, so this

will not affect the levels of our creek?

But it is coming out of the ground, correct?

You guys are...

It's coming out, it's not... No, there will be no wells on site. It will be coming from the existing well that the authority has and is already utilizing.

So when that well is run dry, where do you draw from then?

We don't.

So you're just gonna close down then.

So we have 400,000 gallons per day of water that's been allocated to the site. That's what we have to utilize. If the authority's well goes dry, right, that's a well that serves the township and other areas, obviously they'd have to find a new well, because everybody would be affected.

I don't know. Like I said, I missed the previous meetings, but I'm gonna try and make every one I can. This just, it honestly makes me sick that this is even in question, and that we're willing to destroy our homelands for a profit. That is sickening to me. And I grew up on a farm in this area, and this creek was my home. And they lived there too.

They lived there too. And the answers obviously changed too. How old are you? I'm 33. Okay. Well, I've been here for 68 years, and when I was young and old enough to play in the creek, we couldn't play in the Conodoguinet Creek because it was literally an open sewer. And everybody talks about the Letort being such a great trout stream. Until 1980, the Letort wasn't an open sewer, it was a clogged sewer way, and the Conodoguinet Creek had soap suds floating down it from the Letort Creek clear down past Country Manor Trailer Park. So when people say that this county and the government doesn't do things to improve or protect the environment, I know the people that had to take an excavator and small pads and dig from Carlisle to where the Letort dumps into the Conodoguinet, and dig the silt out from the Carlisle sewer plant that didn't work.

And you couldn't eat fish. My dad and I would catch fish out of the creek. Our farm is along the Conodoguinet Creek. The fish weren't fit to eat. They smelt like sewer when you pulled them out of the water. But in 1980, and everybody hated this sewer plant being built over here, but they built a new sewer plant, and now the Conodoguinet... When I was a kid, you could stand on the bank of the creek and look in the creek, and you couldn't see the bottom because it was cloudy. And it wasn't cloudy, it was raw

sewage and sewage floating in the water. And sewer. Okay, so now the... We built a new sewer... Let me finish. We left, you talk. So we built a new sewer plant, and now the creek, you can stand on the bank and see the bottom on the other side. So I'm just telling you that there's been a lot of work done to preserve the Conodoguinet Creek and bring it back to what it was, and we're not gonna let that be destroyed again.

I hope so.

Yes, ma'am.

All right. Jocelyn with Bernheisel Bridge Road. So I guess I just have two questions first. Mr. Courtney, can you clarify, just because this isn't my job, I don't know what this means, what is NPDES approval?

NPDES. N-P-D-E-S. National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System, I think. It's a permit for earth disturbance that DEP issues. And stormwater discharge.

From DEP? That's correct. Cool. Thank you. And just, Mark, to clarify, so when we get preliminary approval, they can blast at their own risk. That's correct?

Correct. They can blast, they can do grading once they get NPDES approval. They have preliminary approval on 1B already.

Okay. Hey, what does that mean? I have no idea.

And then I guess just to piggyback off the other guy, when... And I could be wrong, but when I look at this, the grounds for denial or the grounds for not approving a plan, these five come up. Inconsistency with the comprehensive plan, which we don't have. Adverse environmental and neighborhood impact, check. Infrastructure and public utilities burden, including the fire department, including the electricity, including water, check. Incompatibility with neighborhood characteristics, check. Lack of public benefit and support, check. So while I understand what Larry was saying about, you know, you have to show that they were avoiding, misrepresenting and violating, there also are other things that can be looked at, and this seems to be checking all the boxes.

And I would encourage you at the very least to slow what's happening, and make informed choices. Thanks.

John, typically we don't go around...

One question, and I'll let us sit down. Is there or is there not a second well being drilled right now? It's a yes or no question, Dan. Thank you.

Yes, the municipal authority's been developing a second well for the last, over a year.

So that means if the current one goes dry, we have another one, right?

Yes. The municipal authority has redundancy in the water supply.

Okay.

Thank you. Charlie, would you...

Yeah, look, so all of the things that, Jocelyn, I didn't catch your last name, all the things that she mentioned, all of those items go into, right, those are all public health, safety, welfare items, right? And every ordinance that is adopted in Pennsylvania has to protect, promote public health, safety, and welfare, right? That's the rational basis for the laws. So everything that she identified is baked into the standards that go into formatting, developing a stormwater management ordinance, putting together a zoning map, putting together a zoning ordinance, putting together all of the districts, the standards that go in each district, the general regulations that apply to all uses, the specific standards that apply to particular uses.

And in the context of the subdivision and land development ordinance, you know, all of the design standards, how you're supposed to design streets, how you're supposed to lay out developments, how you're supposed to provide for sewer, water, et cetera. All of those things are baked into the actual ordinances, and so that's why the review is does this comply with our ordinances, because the ordinances are what we've put in place to protect and promote the public health, safety, and welfare. Now, everybody might not agree that maybe some of the standards should be different, but those are the standards, right?

And so all of the things that are mentioned, they are all baked into what this planning commission reviews and evaluates, you know, for every project. That is how ordinances then, you take a policy statement, and you reduce it to a set of standards, and then you enforce those standards.

John. All of our municipal water does not come from one well. We currently use a well in Middlesex.

We have two wells.

There are two wells in South Middlesex.

Well, let me finish. We have one well that's online in Middlesex Township. We have a second well drilled, and it will soon be coming online.

In Middlesex Township?

Yes. And then we also get water from South Middleton Township. My understanding the last time I talked to Rory, we have the capacity to supply two million gallons of water a day in Middlesex Township. We are currently using one million gallon. They are gonna be allotted 400,000 gallon a day on the days that they need it. So we have 600,000 in reserve at this point before the second well comes online.

So if they hit their magic number, and I heard that the switch is gonna be turned off, so they'll have to use their storage tanks, while they're filling their storage tanks, does that still come out of the 400,000 gallons?

They can only draw 400,000 gallon a day.

But they've already hit their 400,000 gallons. Switch turns off. Now they have to pull out of their...

They'll have to pull out of their supply. They can't go up to 500,000 a day from us. They can only take 400,000 out of the public supply. If they go over 400,000, they'll have to pull out of their supply they have on site.

There's 1.4 million gallons

What company? Meadows, Meadows Sewer Company, the same company who drain dark water for Country Manor West?

The Middlesex Municipal supplies the Meadows. And then you have your own sewer plant.

Meadow is the owner because the small plant, who drain the water...

Your sewer is a privately owned facility.

It's for Meadow Sewer Plant Company?

I don't know what the name of it is.

Yeah, the Meadow Sewer.

Well, anyhow, they only treat the sewer. Your water comes from Middlesex Municipal

Authority. They drain the water for Meadow too, for Meadow community and other community, not only for my community.

Yeah. The Meadows development is on public water as Country Manor. When you get to the Ridings, they have their own private wells. They pay for the sewage. But they take the sewage from you and The Meadows and the trailer park.

Did you have a question or comment, ma'am?

Yes.

Who are you?

What's your name? Yeah. Alexia. Alexia, yes.

Alexia Gerber. Bernheisel Bridge Drive. I'd just like to address Mr. Courtney's comments just now about ordinances. I would hope most of us in the room understand how township ordinances work, especially being part of this process for a while. I think what the residents tonight, and many at many a meeting, are trying to get at is that both our comprehensive plan and our township and our ordinances themselves were out of date and are not prepared to regulate a project of this size. I'll repeat my husband from the supervisor meeting last week. This project is not only the biggest data center going in in our township, our county, our state, on the entire East Coast.

How can a comprehensive plan not updated since two thousand and three be prepared to handle that? Let alone the ordinances that I hope are a little bit more up-to-date, but are probably not prepared for something like this. I also believe that data center companies have been targeting townships in the state of not being prepared as ours was. And yet again, while we understand the ordinances, our planning commissioners, as our supervisors, are still our representatives. They are still our leaders in some form in our township, and we are calling them to a higher ethic. I'll repeat my husband.

The state constitution, we, I think would all agree, and I hope higher up representatives in our state agree, as this thing's contested, this is being violated at a higher level. So yes, it might comply with the ordinances that are completely outdated to prepare to handle a project this size. We understand that you might be playing by the rules that were in place. As has been said, one specific example of that is the sound, the low frequency. There's nothing in our comprehensive plan addressing that, or excuse me, in the ordinances. So while we understand how ordinances work, and we understand the planning commission's job, and we sympathize with the hard spot that they are in, truly, I view all of you...

I don't envy your position because I understand how hard of a place you're in and that your job and what you're being asked to do is, you probably feel very stuck. But this is wrong at a higher level. It's violating ethics. It's violating our state constitution, not just the ordinances. Thank you.

I'd like to wrap things up. The only other comment... Well, before we finish up, any final thoughts, Charlie or Nick? Do we have any township informational comments, Mark?

No, unless you have any questions.

Anything else from commission members?

I just have one question.

I don't even know whether it would be... Use the mic.

Can you hear me? Robin, can you use the mic?

I just have one question. If Justin were here, I would ask him this. So he had... He's written down.

He had stated that Livic was going to be scheduling a meeting with the residents, that I think it was the residents that live near the site. Has that been scheduled?

So I'm gonna give you a slight correction. PowerHouse. PowerHouse is going to set up that meeting via the design partners, will be setting that meeting up. I know Livic is pressing our team to get that set up promptly. That's all I can say.

I think it's gonna happen very soon. I just don't know the specifics on it, but yeah. They wanna get it set up as soon as possible because, you know, there's some questions we need to answer. We're on it.

All right. Thank you. How much longer are we gonna have to wait for that? I mean, they're represented here. Can we ask them? They're here.

Okay.

I move we adjourn.

No, we're just not gonna...

I have a motion and a second to adjourn.

Yeah, but... I don't think we have to vote on it, is what we heard recently, so the meeting is adjourned.

Excuse me. Am I able to say one more statement?

Oh.

And this is in regards to Country Manor West.

Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

You can definitely talk to the microphone. It's right here. It's very important because they don't hear when I'm talking about...

So I'm speaking on behalf of my mother, Pilar Nieto, and I am her legal POA. Does anyone even care about what is going on in Country Manor West? We're the closest to the zoning area. When the bombs blast, our homes shake. I have pots, my plants outside that fall. I have a newborn baby that cries, okay? But besides that, is it because we live in a mobile home that we're not being taken seriously? I've spoken to Barb Gleim personally several times, and even in an hour meeting with her in regards to what's going on there. There's several issues going on over there.

And again, never got a call back. My question is: How is it possible that Mr. Carpenter was able to rezone Country Manor West to what it is now without verifying extensively the record of the park owner, Frank Perano? How is it possible that a resident, my mother, is in a UCC financing statement as a debtor without any knowledge or authorization? Could it be possibly extortion? Here it states:

"A park owner can file a UCC-1 on your property to force you to pay unrelated fees or to prevent you from moving the home or selling. It is a form of harassment or intended to cloud the title of the home, making the residents in that park impossible to move or to be in a form of eviction. The park owner has no legal standing to file a UCC on an HVAC system or anything that is being leased or financed if they have not provided the financing,"

which in this case with my mother, it did not. We are extremely troubled by the events occurring in our community, and this is just one of them. This has been going on for over decades. I have spoken to residents who have been there from the very start, the first houses built on that community.

And I would just like to inform you that we will be continuing our private investigation, and if needed, we'll be contacting our lawyer and the state attorney general as these issues continue to occur. And whoever filed this UCC, which I'm assuming has to go through you, Mr. Carpenter... What's a UCC? It's a UCC financing statement. So you can do a quick...

That's not involved... No, I'm not involved in that. I don't know what you're...

The information that was filed on here is incorrect.

Doesn't involve me at all. I don't know what you're talking about.

Well, that's what I heard differently.

The issue is because before you rezoning the area, you supposed verify in the Cumberland County property information. The information in the Cumberland County property...

I will talk to our attorney.

Thank you. Okay. But I know something is wrong in Mr. Perano paper about Country Manor West. Okay. And you rezoning without verify that record, because I can go to the property and I'm verify. The Country Manor West said he have one thirteen acres in Country Manor West. Who know how many feet register in the property? 2,000 feet. That property is more bigger. The smallest part behind the park said that the sewer area is Meadow Sewer Company, said 1.47 acres.

I read your...

But in the paper don't say anything. Zero fees. That's supposed the record have all information, and you rezoning Country Manor West before checking a record in the property Cumberland County? It's not his fault. I don't say from everybody, I don't say you, it's your fault because... because I can't right now.

Well, thank you.

But you the boss for zoning area. You have more than 10 years in that position. You supposed know what is the procedure before you rezoning the area. My question is from everybody, you rezoning the area because you needed the land for construction PAX-1? That's my question. I know Country Manor West have something under the table, and I'm continue verify. Because the resident have a big problem, and you don't care, and never you verify.

Rezoning was definitely done in Country Manor West to make this project possible. And it's a shame. I'm done. Thank you.

All right.

So...

That's my daughter.

Yes.

Yeah. She is.

Thank you, everybody.